What's the actual benefit of 'hollow' over solid pole elastic or are we being misled?

Mork

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I'm a newbie here - please be gentle!

I've been out of the fishing game for 20 years and need to replace my old pole elastics.

So, I googled & youtubed pole elastics and I'm confused about the marketing/media explanation of the benefits of paying £15 for a hollow elastic instead of the good old £2.99 Preston slip. You see... when I studied mechanical science at Uni followed by 35years in the industry, I learned all about tensile properties of elastomers, and It's a fact that cross-sectional shape does NOT affect tensile properties (for the same material and cross-sectional area).

I'd be interested in what's peoples subjective opinion and if they have any objective/scientific information to back-up their explanation please?
In the meantime, as a retired research & development test engineer, I will conduct some 'real' tests and let you know what I find.
 

Neil ofthe nene

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As someone who has not really ever got on with hollows i too have not fully grasped their benefits over, say, a softer solid. So with my limited knowledge I see no benefit in using a 14 hollow instead of a 14 solid that could not be gained by just using a 10 or 8 solid and puller.

By the time you have pulled more than half the elastic from a pole you must be at least doubling the elastic's rating. So why not use a stronger hollow or similar grade solid?

This brings into a world of opinion and away from science. Those that use hollows will tell you two things. The first is the adage " The harder you pull the harder the fish fights". Thus the theory being that fish surrender to the lighter pressure of a hollow more readily than that of a similar grade solid.

The other similar/linked thing is that because the pressure is less the hooked fish will swim calmly away from where it was hooked and thus cause less spooking of the shoal and disturbance of the bottom. That can be important in shallow margin swims. In addition this may allow finer lines to be employed.

As I say, having tried hollows on numerous occasions I return to my solids that work for me.

Most hollows have only air in the core. Hydrostatic has a silicone fluid. The idea behind this is that as the fluid is incompressible you can adjust the pressure on the fish using the angle between pole and fish to trap a given amount of fluid in the elastic outside of the pole thus changing the effective strength of the elastic.

No science in my opinion but lots of subjective opinion. Are hollows really that good and am I the simpleton who does not recognise that. Or is the Emperor naked after all?
 

Nunachuk

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I'm a newbie here - please be gentle!

I've been out of the fishing game for 20 years and need to replace my old pole elastics.

So, I googled & youtubed pole elastics and I'm confused about the marketing/media explanation of the benefits of paying £15 for a hollow elastic instead of the good old £2.99 Preston slip. You see... when I studied mechanical science at Uni followed by 35years in the industry, I learned all about tensile properties of elastomers, and It's a fact that cross-sectional shape does NOT affect tensile properties (for the same material and cross-sectional area).

I'd be interested in what's peoples subjective opinion and if they have any objective/scientific information to back-up their explanation please?
In the meantime, as a retired research & development test engineer, I will conduct some 'real' tests and let you know what I find.
Mork welcome mate, please speak proper English in future, like wot the rest of us does! Fank you. ;-)
 

Nunachuk

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As someone who has not really ever got on with hollows i too have not fully grasped their benefits over, say, a softer solid. So with my limited knowledge I see no benefit in using a 14 hollow instead of a 14 solid that could not be gained by just using a 10 or 8 solid and puller.

By the time you have pulled more than half the elastic from a pole you must be at least doubling the elastic's rating. So why not use a stronger hollow or similar grade solid?

This brings into a world of opinion and away from science. Those that use hollows will tell you two things. The first is the adage " The harder you pull the harder the fish fights". Thus the theory being that fish surrender to the lighter pressure of a hollow more readily than that of a similar grade solid.

The other similar/linked thing is that because the pressure is less the hooked fish will swim calmly away from where it was hooked and thus cause less spooking of the shoal and disturbance of the bottom. That can be important in shallow margin swims. In addition this may allow finer lines to be employed.

As I say, having tried hollows on numerous occasions I return to my solids that work for me.

Most hollows have only air in the core. Hydrostatic has a silicone fluid. The idea behind this is that as the fluid is incompressible you can adjust the pressure on the fish using the angle between pole and fish to trap a given amount of fluid in the elastic outside of the pole thus changing the effective strength of the elastic.

No science in my opinion but lots of subjective opinion. Are hollows really that good and am I the simpleton who does not recognise that. Or is the Emperor naked after all?
Neil, no mate the Emperor isn't naked, he's wrapped in hollow pole elastic. :)
 

davylad

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I haven't a clue on the technical side of things, but after trying umpteen times, I just get on much better with hollow elastic. From tying the knot, to playing a fish, I personally find hollow better. I've tried most of the different manufacturers, and after using Nick's for yonks, I'm presently finding the Middy Reactacore in a couple of kits very good. I would think there isn't an answer to which is best Mork, no matter what you find in your experiments, it's what each individual prefers, just like lots of other tackle etc. Oh welcome to the forum matey, you'll enjoy it, mind you this thread might go on a bit.
 

RMNDIL

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There are different compounds and so each behaves differently in how far they stretch - or not - and how they perish. So even though amount of material can and should be compared regardless of hollow or solid the actual properties can vary compound to compound anyway. If comparing the exact same compound then like for like tests are easy.

Hollows cost more to manufacture but, again, depends on compounds used and actual process (extruded or dip coated).

When using light/thin/soft elastics I prefer hollows for most silverfish applications on the river when I am swinging fish because it flattens on the PTFE and stops stretching as far as a solid would meaning I can swing to hand more effectively. I use light solids when I need even lighter/thinner (say solid No 2 or No 3) as I will end up netting any bonus (say 2oz) and swinging only blades.

For strong elastics solid latexes will definitely only stretch so far and will power up and 'bite' quicker than a hollow version (not saying like for like on volume of material) or a Hybrid hollow version. Hybrids seem to be very soft size for size and stretch a long way so to get any power you end up having to use thicker and therefore heavier (in physical weight) which affects the pole's performance. So not like normal solid or hollow latex at all.

As with most things you pick the elastic for the job you want it to do and one which you know what to do with and know it's limitations etc. A lot can be trial and error.
 

Steadyeddie 1

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I'm pleased somebody else likes the Middy Reactacore. After hearing so much about Matrix and Preston hybrid elastic I was beginning to think I was the only person using the Middy. I use the cerise in match kits and the saturn in power kits
 

Neil ofthe nene

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Hollows cost more to manufacture but, again, depends on compounds used and actual process (extruded or dip coated).
That is something I cannot agree with. Yes you need slightly different tooling but once set up costs should be similar. But as we know, cost of manufacture has no bearing on retail price.

£70 for a "football" shirt?. It's a tee shirt and I can buy those for well under £10. Add a club badge, advertising and 2021/2 design and you have a product that people expect to pay a high price for.

The same can be said for hollow or dual core elastics, market them as somehow superior and with a certain cachet and you can bump the price up.
 

dave brittain 1

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You have to take into account both the stretch factor, how the elastics work and the benefits of each on their own merits:

Solid

Positives

Weight and dia
Do to the limited stretch factor can give an advantage over hollow to stop fish reaching snags
Better for smaller fish
Price

Negatives
5 x stretch factor
Locks up when bottomed out

Hollow

8 x stretch factor
Bottoms out gradually and then gives a little more
Lighter grades when used with a puller can subdue large fish easily
Flattens at the bush under tension giving the angler more control over bigger fish

Negatives
Weight
Price


Personally I prefer hollows for 90% of my fishing simply because of the advantages they give when catching big fish and the versatility of lighter hollows 8-12 when targeting mixed bags.

If I'm roach fishing or skimmer fishing with no chance of carp it's be solid every time.
 

RMNDIL

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That is something I cannot agree with. Yes you need slightly different tooling but once set up costs should be similar. But as we know, cost of manufacture has no bearing on retail price.
Dip coating real latex is a LOT LOT slower than multi 'ribbon' extrusion of solids. More machine time = more cost. More volume = more shipping cost. Sure if you extrude a single hollow in a single colour it's not much different in extrusion speed to a single solid in a single colour (Hybrids for example). But solid latex is extruded with many 'ends' at a time making a joined ribbon (hence tiny flats and not a true round profile) and so very fast by comparison. Imagine getting one latex tube per 20 seconds and compare it to getting 44 latex threads per 30 seconds etc etc . That's not to say marketing and advertising etc etc doesn't come into play because it does (as does the chain of supply as 'direct' sales via manufacturer+importer+angler are totally different to manufacturer + export agent + importer+distributor+wholesaler+retailer+angler) but you need to compare like for like in the first place.
 

Neil ofthe nene

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Dip coating real latex is a LOT LOT slower than multi 'ribbon' extrusion of solids. More machine time = more cost. More volume = more shipping cost. Sure if you extrude a single hollow in a single colour it's not much different in extrusion speed to a single solid in a single colour (Hybrids for example). But solid latex is extruded with many 'ends' at a time making a joined ribbon (hence tiny flats and not a true round profile) and so very fast by comparison. Imagine getting one latex tube per 20 seconds and compare it to getting 44 latex threads per 30 seconds etc etc . That's not to say marketing and advertising etc etc doesn't come into play because it does (as does the chain of supply as 'direct' sales via manufacturer+importer+angler are totally different to manufacturer + export agent + importer+distributor+wholesaler+retailer+angler) but you need to compare like for like in the first place.
Sorry, I still think companies use any excuse to rip off consumers.
 

crackatoa

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In Summer it's Hollows, then in Winter I use Solids. I like the Matrix Core Hollows 10-12 and 12-14, which can be bought from Bobco for £10. When it gets cold I go lighter with the Hollows then go for Preston Slip as winter sets in.
I've tried the so-called Hybrid Elastics, from various companies and found it just doesn't last. No long term saving on hollow and works out a lot dearer than Preston Slip.
 

Maesknoll

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Just try a few and use what suits you, ignore everyone’s opinion and you won’t go far wrong. Personally I tend to use solids for silvers fishing, but find that Middy 1-5 hollow is my ultimate winter skimmer elastic. For most mid range sizes I use the ‘new’ hybrids, especially when fishing 16m or more. For fishing short for big carp I’ll use a 14 hollow and that or heavier hollow down the edge.

I have tried the solid ‘heavy’ approach and just loose too many fish, especially fishing long. My preference is for an elastic as light as I can get away with.

I could study it and do all sorts of calculations, analysis and investigations, but I get enough of that at work……. For fishing, I just use what I get on with.
 

Total

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@Maesknoll .....Out of interest Chris have you used the 'heavy' solid elastic approach on your new Browning pole or is what you said above related to your Daiwa pole experiences?
 

Maesknoll

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@Maesknoll .....Out of interest Chris have you used the 'heavy' solid elastic approach on your new Browning pole or is what you said above related to your Daiwa pole experiences?
It was a long time ago I switched to hollows, so no need to try heavy solids on either a Daiwa or Browning, I had a Maver when I switched to hollows. The pole wouldn’t make any difference, it’s the elastic that does the work once the fish is hooked.
 

Total

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It was a long time ago I switched to hollows, so no need to try heavy solids on either a Daiwa or Browning, I had a Maver when I switched to hollows. The pole wouldn’t make any difference, it’s the elastic that does the work once the fish is hooked.
So you haven't tried it then.:oops:....Thank you Neil!:ROFLMAO:
 
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