What is best material for stop knots - what do you use?

Dslayer

dslayer
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I dont mean 'float stops' per se which are alternatives to locking shot on a waggler fished at a relatively shallow depth (eg 6' deep with a 13' rod), I mean stop knots to stop floats at a depth in excess of the rod length and whereby the stop knot needs to pass FREELY through the rod rings during casting and retrieval...

BTW many modern rods are totally incorrectly ringed with rings TOO small (or in the case of carp rods TOO LARGE and NOT ENOUGH)... but that's by-the-by except that the tip rings will not allow passage of a stop knot without at least jarring and interfering with the free passage of the line. With light floats/loads this can mean having to cast with more force than should be necessary and/or the flight being unpredictable and for the same type/force cast the float can land with a distance difference of several feet every cast...

The small ring problem is easy to resolve... I've re-ringed all my float rods so that the tip rings are now 4.5mm and all the other rings are tapered up from butt rings of 16mm to 6mm immediately below the tip. So no problem anymore with that particular issue.... but I'm trying to find the BEST material to use for the knot itself now...

A lot of people quote power gum - that's fine for short depth setting (as per float stops) - but far too big for deep use - even with my enlarged rings you can feel it pass though the rings - and no chance of it passing through the 'original' ringing!!

I've tried No1 and 2 pole elastic - still bulky and hard to get a knot made - plus often snaps under tightening I find...

Stiff 'feeder' line (Drennan? Came free with a magazine I think?) - 6lb BS. Is OK as a locking material, small bulk, passes freely through rings with no catching, etc BUT when moving on line - even lubricating first - it crinkles/crushes the line...

Braid (18ln BS) - works well, doesn't crinkle line on moving if lubricated. Bit bulky but probably be better with a lower BS version (6 or 8lb?)
HOWEVER, 2 problems ... 1. the tags ends start to split and go fibrey ... and most problematic 2. as braid has no stretch to help to lock the knot it self loosens over time and slips easily (as you'd know if you tied your hooks, etc with a 5-turn blood knot WITHOUT tuck - a case of not 'if' but 'when' that knot fails!) and hence slowly moves due to the friction as it passes through the rod rings ... not ideal!

OK ... going to use some lighter softer mono on my next attempt/experiment ... but can anyone recommend anything other?
Was thinking of shearing elastic (aka bait elastic) after removing the cotton covering (or even keep the covering?) but suspect it, like the pole elastic, will snap on tying?

BTW - I've used both method of tying the stop knot with all those materials ... neither seemed to produce any better results than the other.
1. Make a loop in the line used for the knot, hold loop next to line, wind one tag end over the other and the mainline 5 times away from loop and then feed that tag line through the loop - tighten...
AND
2. Make a big loop with line used for knot alongside the mainline and wrap one tag end over the mainline and INSIDE its loop 5 times, then tighten loop...
 

Dslayer

dslayer
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Well, just tried Daiwa Hyper Sensor, 8lb - I use Daiwa Hyper Sensor (6lb) as my main line when float fishing - the 8lb for all my ledger based fishing.

Seems to work well!! :)
 

SpenBeck

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For a slider knot use one called a whipping knot. This is also the knot I use to tie spade-end hooks. See attached image.

I always use a line which is a little heavier than the reel line. Reel line 4lb - knot line 6lb and so on. When the knot is tied around the reel line pull it tight - but not too tight or it won't slide. Wet the knot and line with some spit and try sliding it up and down. If it's too slack pull the knot a little tighter. When you are happy cut the knot ends to your required length - 1" or so.

Also, it can be a good idea to put a small bead on the line above the float and below the knot. This stops a float with a large eye going over the knot.

Hope this helps.
 

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Dslayer

dslayer
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C
For a slider knot use one called a whipping knot. This is also the knot I use to tie spade-end hooks. See attached image.

I always use a line which is a little heavier than the reel line. Reel line 4lb - knot line 6lb and so on. When the knot is tied around the reel line pull it tight - but not too tight or it won't slide. Wet the knot and line with some spit and try sliding it up and down. If it's too slack pull the knot a little tighter. When you are happy cut the knot ends to your required length - 1" or so.

Also, it can be a good idea to put a small bead on the line above the float and below the knot. This stops a float with a large eye going over the knot.

Hope this helps.
Cheers - yep, thats tying method 1 as I said.
And I do use (2) beads either side of the float - 1 tiny one with a micro-bore that actually stops the knot and another bigger one that separates the small bead from the float eye to prevent jamming... the bottom pair allows me to separate the float from the shot when casting as I find there is less change of tangling if there is a 12" or more gap between the top shot than if float rests on it.

Thanks for the info!
 

satinet

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I've used ESP power gum with a normal float rod. Passed through ok. Most slider floats are pretty heavy and with a heavy bulk, it pulls it.

That being said 6lb sensor or equivalent with a normal sliding stop knot.
 

JLK

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I don't do much slider fishing now but when I did I used 3lb Maxima for main line. Then I just used 4lb Maxima for the knot or two knots if it started moving.
I always used to put a pair of pliers to the swivel if it was a round to make it slightly diamond shaped. This stopped on the knot without a bead much better.
Loaded wagglers were my preference too. You won't go far wrong with the purple drakes tbh.
 

Dropon

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Think I have seen someone/somewhere recommend using dental floss. Never tried it so don’t know anymore.
 

nejohn

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I use the same as my reel line, always use 2 stop knots with a bead between the float and the stop knots. Always keep the ends of the knot quite long 1-2". I picked up a Sensas slider rod a couple of years ago which is ideal it has a parabolic action but it the curve starts further up the blank than normal so it is a bit more tippy than most, it also has fewer rod rings and they are a larger diameter than normal so no issues with the stop knots getting caught on the rod rings
 

rd115

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When piking i use power gum for stop knots, leave 2 tag ends about an inch each and passes through the eyes no problems.
 

brian carragher

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Mono, pinched in the middle to kink it and then spin the two half's in opposite directions to spin and twist it together, then tie a traditional sliding knot and leave the tag ends long, the twisted mono gets a good grip f your main line without burning it or weakening it
 

Dslayer

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Many thanks to all who have responded! Some useful info there which will be worked upon!! :)

Tight lines to all!
 

matti

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When slider fishing, I use 4lb drennan feeder gum, not power gum, for my stop knots
 

ravey

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I use nylon thread used for whipping on rod tings, with a tiny glass bead. While I haven’t done a lot of slider fishing, I have found using this method/material works well enough.
 

Dave

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I used to tie whipping knots onto a piece of Biro ink tube (empty of course), then when setting the rod up to use a slider I threaded the reel line through the tube up to where I needed the knot then slide the knot off the tube and tightened it onto the reel line. The tube was then slid back off the line.
I used whipping cotton as it was thick enough but the cut ends didn't jar against the rod rings.

Saying that, I can't remember the last time I sued a slider now, unless a Jigga rig counts ;)
 

Dslayer

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Update....
After trying the various suggestions and others I have now settled on my material....

On my standard float fishing main line of 6lb bs I have found the best choice is a standard sliding stop knot made from 6lb bs feeder line (or other stiff line like Maxima or fluorocarbon).

I place 3 stop knots on the line ....

1st .... between the top of the bulk shot and the float, placed a distance just greater than the length of float above the shot. Prevents the line wrapping around and trapping around the antenna of a bodied float, esp a wind/drift eater type which has a bob on top of the antenna which can prevent the wrap unravelling.

2nd ... above the float. Initially set to the water depth via plumbing.

3rd ... when setting 2nd knot at depth of water this knot is set tight to it. Purpose is to allow the 2nd knot to be repositioned to fish at less than full depth (eg slide down 6" to fish 6" above bottom) but allows a marker to return the 2nd knot to in order to be fishing full depth again.

Also either side of the float are microbored (≤0.5mm hole) beads as float eyes are usually too wide for stop knots to work well after a period of time when the knot material starts getting fatigued and the tag ends become limp.
 
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