The Pfizer vaccine

CluelessFishing

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So I take it that a "few" people on this forum didn't pay much attention in biology lessons at school??

Nothing is completely safe - but frankly the risk of mild adverse reaction to a vaccine compared to the risk of serious illness?
examples

Vaccines are amongst the safest "drugs" that can be given to humans as they work with the immune system, whereas most other drugs disrupt or enhance a specific cellular process (which can have knock-on impacts on all the connected processes)

the MMR combination vaccination is safe.
Much of the modern anti-vaxxer nonsense can be traced back to the "con-man" Andrew Wakefield, who actually falsified data in his original paper (unlike UEA in the climate change debate)

And for balance - in the case of vaccines, the most worrying side effects are unanticipated immune responses - which are going to happen almost immediately (so don't require long-term studies in the same way) - which is different to the therapeutic drugs question

As NOTN said - lots of people have not experienced a world with smallpox, endemic polio or other awful diseases that have been all but eradicated by vaccination.
Who are the "few" you are referring to I haven't noticed anybody arguing against vaccination . The freedom to argue against it if you wish is quite different.
Additionally I ..... and I expect many others ....unlike yourself it seems ....... was taught nothing about vaccines and drug company testing regimes at school . I paid enough attention to know they were not mentioned
 

62tucker

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No malaria vaccine yet. 3rd world problem so vaccine companies not that bothered as no money in it.
 

Arry

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No malaria vaccine yet. 3rd world problem so vaccine companies not that bothered as no money in it.
Utter rubbish.... my old employers made one, albeit with limited efficacy... its not an easy disease to vaccinate against, as there are loads of varieties of mosquito and different strains of the disease...
 

62tucker

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Utter rubbish.... my old employers made one, albeit with limited efficacy... its not an easy disease to vaccinate against, as there are loads of varieties of mosquito and different strains of the disease...
So there’s not a one then.
 

Arry

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So there’s not a one then.
There are about 4 or 5 at last count... as a case in point lots of firms do a lot of work in 3rd world countries... theres a lot of thinking about major pharma that can be left at the door before folks start slagging them off... for example aids has dropped to its lowest level worldwide... mainly because the plant I worked at made Aids drugs at cost for the 3rd world and made a 17 tablet a day regimen into a 3 tab a day... they also send epilepsy, diabetes and anti virals to 3rd world countries free of charge... I certainly had my eyes opened
 

CluelessFishing

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Utter rubbish.... my old employers made one, albeit with limited efficacy... its not an easy disease to vaccinate against, as there are loads of varieties of mosquito and different strains of the disease...
bit rich with the unnecessary "utter rubbish" comment then coming out with utter rubbish yourself . If you are going to talk to people that way give the full facts .
The first line in big letters on the centre for disease control website states

"Vaccines​


Although progress has been made in the last 10 years toward developing malaria vaccines, there is currently no licensed malaria vaccine on the market. "

The one you refer to presumably has limited efficacy and hence is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in real terms . the point tucker made about the fact its not a money spinner hence the research has not had the attention one would expect is exactly right which is cited on the same cdc website as one of the primary reason why there is not an effective vaccine available ..the terms they state it in are "lack of a traditional market" which is another way of saying its a third world problem and they can't afford us .
The fact there are different strains of malaria and it is a complex issue again is also irrelevant ....... there are plenty different strains of covid and its been a complex problem to address but since untold millions have been poured into research and billions will be spent on the product we got there in quicktime. I repeat the comments tucker made far from being "utter rubbish" were bang on the button.
 

NoCarpPlease

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Who are the "few" you are referring to I haven't noticed anybody arguing against vaccination . The freedom to argue against it if you wish is quite different.
Additionally I ..... and I expect many others ....unlike yourself it seems ....... was taught nothing about vaccines and drug company testing regimes at school . I paid enough attention to know they were not mentioned
as you ask - I trawled through the thread
  • two posters said they wouldn't until others had tried it
  • you yourself said "on the fence"
  • one poster talked of nurses declining to be vaccinated (although assumed because of immunity acquired from previous infection - but risk of misinterpretation or onward telling)
  • another thought that Covid vaccine might protect against influenza (although you corrected that person)
  • another mentioned the MMR combined vaccine as causing problems (when it doesn't), although that comment might have been referencing the scandal rather than the facts
iirc correctly - basics of immunisation were covered early on 0-level syllabus - obviously not everyone did all the academic subjects.

If one didn't cover it at school then I've provided a handy summary with those links, and hopefully debunked a few myths before they gain additional traction
of course - readers could scream "FAKE NEWS" ... which kinda proves my point from the other thread.
;)
 

NoCarpPlease

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Utter rubbish.... my old employers made one, albeit with limited efficacy... its not an easy disease to vaccinate against, as there are loads of varieties of mosquito and different strains of the disease...

^^^^^ this
comparing production of a vaccine for a single virus with the additional complexity of the same for a bacterium or the several Plasmodium species that cause malaria is really not fair.

interesting paper abstract that highlights why Plasmodium spp. might be evading immunisation strategies

the CDC paper (that I think ClueLessFishing refers to) does highlight the problem for the pharma companies of lack of prevalence of the disease in "rich countries" mean that there is less market to recoup costs from / offset providing to poor areas at cost or less.
Which does highlight one of the failings of a pure capitalist system ;)
Anyway - with global warming we may all have to worry about it in future - so perhaps that particular blocker will go?

As is stated - Malaria is a massive worldwide killer - but currently the main strategies are prevention (killing/blocking the mosquito vectors).
 

CluelessFishing

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as you ask - I trawled through the thread
  • two posters said they wouldn't until others had tried it
  • you yourself said "on the fence"
  • one poster talked of nurses declining to be vaccinated (although assumed because of immunity acquired from previous infection - but risk of misinterpretation or onward telling)
  • another thought that Covid vaccine might protect against influenza (although you corrected that person)
  • another mentioned the MMR combined vaccine as causing problems (when it doesn't), although that comment might have been referencing the scandal rather than the facts
iirc correctly - basics of immunisation were covered early on 0-level syllabus - obviously not everyone did all the academic subjects.

If one didn't cover it at school then I've provided a handy summary with those links, and hopefully debunked a few myths before they gain additional traction
of course - readers could scream "FAKE NEWS" ... which kinda proves my point from the other thread.
;)
So basically you trawled through the thread and found I was correct ....... nobody directly argued against it and the "few" you referred to as not having paid attention at school are not in fact suggesting vaccinations are a bad thing . The stupid and/or ill informed are in actually agreeing with you on this occasion . I'm not sure whether thats a good or a bad thing if the proles are coming up with the same conclusions as your good self with all that pent up knowledge !
Just as an aside .......... do you think perhaps your points and sometimes undoubtedly well thought out and researched posts ... might be better received if you didn't prefix , suffix or intersperse them ( albeit perhaps unintentionally) by intimating that anybody who doesn't accept or perhaps hadn't even considered your points are stupid or ill informed or both ? It seemed to be a feature of your posts back in the day when the potential outcomes of brexit were discussed many of your posts suggested that people who didn't agree with you were ill informed and you knew better . perhaps thats not how you mean to present it or perhaps its your idea of humour I have no idea . but the simple example of "attention at school" illustrates it to a degree . Its either condescending claptrap or weak humour I'm unsure which . In truth i don't care which I just thought I'd have a ramble.
 

CluelessFishing

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^^^^^ this
comparing production of a vaccine for a single virus with the additional complexity of the same for a bacterium or the several Plasmodium species that cause malaria is really not fair.

interesting paper abstract that highlights why Plasmodium spp. might be evading immunisation strategies

the CDC paper (that I think ClueLessFishing refers to) does highlight the problem for the pharma companies of lack of prevalence of the disease in "rich countries" mean that there is less market to recoup costs from / offset providing to poor areas at cost or less.
Which does highlight one of the failings of a pure capitalist system ;)
Anyway - with global warming we may all have to worry about it in future - so perhaps that particular blocker will go?

As is stated - Malaria is a massive worldwide killer - but currently the main strategies are prevention (killing/blocking the mosquito vectors).
see you can do it .... good post and didn't patronise anybody :)
 

CluelessFishing

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Malaria was once a couple of centuries ago prevalent on the romney marsh

it went under the collquial name of "Marsh Ague"
Interesting post. I had no idea malaria had been prevalent in this country I'll assume its a fact no reason not to accept what you say .
 

mickthechippy

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