The humble lift method, or is it?

Rick123

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
1,600
Adam Penning was the first to publicise this rig tweak. Whether he was the first to use it I don’t know.

The fact is rigs set up like that (a sizeable lump of tungsten putty/shot/olivette) an inch or two from the hook eye with BOTTOM baits work really well.

It is nothing to do with critically balancing or even zig rigs - the bait is already negatively buoyant. it is about what happens to the hook when the fish picks up the bait.....

I hardly ever use pop ups; I very much prefer a bottom bait and I use variations of this rig a great deal And it catches me and my mates a lot of fish. whether it is actually better than a standard bottom bait rig is open to question. We think that it is.

where it fits in with the original Taylor brothers ‘Lift’ method I have no idea.....
Well done Squimp finally someone who is prepared to actually read what I'm saying, and not guessing what's being said. Its as you say mate its what it does to the hook. There is another video I cannot find sadly, but the guy is tying up a tiger nut rig, and than puts a massive lump of putty just one inch from the hook. He explains that when the fish picks up the bait, it also takes in the putty and due to the weight cannot eject it, and it hooks itself on the putty then then bolt rig lead.
Does it work Sam, I don't know, but there are lots that use it if you care to look. Its not my thing, but the lift method with a weight 2''-3'' from hook is similar, as the weight is pulling the hook down as the fish raises it head with the bait in its mouth.
 

Reuben

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
3,172
I suppose whatever tweaks used in rigs is all about confidence - if you feel it works for you then it’s always a winner.
 

squimp

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,845
I fished the lift method a great deal for tench for 2 seasons in the 70’s. I caught hundreds of them. Best catch was 27 in a morning, twice.

Interestingly many of the bites involved the float (peacock quill) going under, rather than lifting as we are led to expect. Some were liners and led to foulhooked fish; but many were genuine bites. Quite what was going on I’m not sure......

In the end I ditched the lift method and switched to a simple float rig to fish an inch off bottom. That was more successful and also got rid of the foul hooking problem.
 

Lee Richards

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
8,521
I know Rick but you started your post with the pricking caused by the putty was the reason it's used by Carp anglers -it's not that at all


Unless you are using a significant amount of putty to be able to do that you won't create the counter force to achieve it. If you do use a large putty weight you are in effect creating a bolt right which is nothing like how the the lift method is supposed to work.

Most Carp rigs incorporating putty do so to balance the pop up or to pin line and I can't ever remember the reference of being on the line to cause the hook to prick the fish.

Without the putty (or shot) more effort is required to achieve the critical balance which would be solely dependant on the weight of the hook.
Get the balance wrong and a 6" long hook length will put the bait 6" above the weight.
With the putty it can be any distance between the lead and the hook and the putty allows the changes to be made on the rig throughout a session
 
Last edited:

Sam Vimes

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
5,806
Lee, the references Rick is using do indeed refer to using lumps of putty in conjunction with bottom baits. However, I'm still not remotely convinced that it makes any difference. As far as I'm concerned, the critical bits of the rig shown in the Adam Penning video are the line aligner and the lead. No matter which "name' is wheeled out, I'll not be convinced that a lump of tungsten rig putty is making any significant difference to the efficiency of the rig. That's not to say that I'm remotely concerned as to whether or not they use it. Chances are that if it gives them confidence, it does work (for them at least). An awful lot of these rigs come down to the faith individuals have in them. The one thing I suspect that it might do is reduce the number of takes from the less efficient suction feeders such as tench.

In a similar vein, I've used Triggalink quite a lot over the years. I've been utterly convinced that it has provoked some rather violent takes, which I appreciated. For quite a long time I felt like I was the only lunatic using it. It took Simon Crow going into print about it before people stopped laughing. However, it didn't take long for the effect to wear off. All it really did was make it difficult to buy for a knockdown price. I bought loads for next to nothing prior to Mr Crow extolling its virtues.
 

squimp

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,845
I think we need 3 separate threads - there seems to be lots of discussion at cross purposes :

1. The ‘lift’ method
2. What is the most efficient bottom bait ‘carp’ rig ?
3. The mechanics of pop-up ‘carp’ rigs.

Maybe we also need a fourth about how you decide whether one rig is actually better than another - I.e. is it all in your head rather than that of the fish ?

or we just call it a day and talk about something else......
 

rudd

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
6,910
I think we need 3 separate threads - there seems to be lots of discussion at cross purposes :

1. The ‘lift’ method
2. What is the most efficient bottom bait ‘carp’ rig ?
3. The mechanics of pop-up ‘carp’ rigs.

Maybe we also need a fourth about how you decide whether one rig is actually better than another - I.e. is it all in your head rather than that of the fish ?

or we just call it a day and talk about something else......
The lift method is nothing like modern specimen rigs designed to make hook turn and prick in to a fishes mouth causing it to bolt (or not as some have wised up).

The lift method shows instant bites from species that have to tip forward to feed to up right themselves again.
The single weight has neutral bouyancy as the float lifts and this is when an UPWARDS strike is need (sideways can pull hook out of mouth as you need to lift the shot - you are aiming tohook intop lip).
Modern carp rigs aim for bottom lip (note AIM).
Once float has fallen flat you have missed the optimum time to strike and fish will spit bait - the shot weight works in favour if the fish.
The lift method isnt that great tbh as it needs fish that tilt and a flat area to work - not all carp species need to tilt and Tench have developed a taste for boilies - I suspect they have learnt to suck harder to deal with heavy (compared to their normal food) boilies.

Best bottom bait rig - Ask Terry Hearn 😉

Mechanics of pop up rigs - most are designed to put your hand in your pocket and hook your wallet 😉
 

satinet

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
657
Lift experts - the couple of times I've tried it, I found the float wants to go under when you sink the line or tighten down.

What's the best way to get the rig fishing do you find? Quick wind down and in the rests?

Tried the sunk float in the margins quite well.
 

dave brittain 1

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
2,741
Well done Squimp finally someone who is prepared to actually read what I'm saying, and not guessing what's being said. Its as you say mate its what it does to the hook. There is another video I cannot find sadly, but the guy is tying up a tiger nut rig, and than puts a massive lump of putty just one inch from the hook. He explains that when the fish picks up the bait, it also takes in the putty and due to the weight cannot eject it, and it hooks itself on the putty then then bolt rig lead.
Does it work Sam, I don't know, but there are lots that use it if you care to look. Its not my thing, but the lift method with a weight 2''-3'' from hook is similar, as the weight is pulling the hook down as the fish raises it head with the bait in its mouth.
Rick you seem to have caused a lot of confusion, probably caused by two factors, the title referring to the lift method and the fact that some haven't looked at the video you referred to.

For me the tungsten serves one purpose only and that is to keep the line flat on the bottom, noting that in Adams video he has tungsten both on the hook length and as back leads, not to mention flourocarbon line which also will keep the line nailed to the bottom. Basically when big carp feed and browse, if they feel the line they become suspicious and can spook.

Looking at the rig, the hook length is longer than many bolt rigs which gives distance from the lead to avoid suspicion. The tungsten in my opinion serves one purpose only and that is to make sure that when the carp waft the bait about the line stays on or near the bottom thus avoiding liners and spooking the fish, noting that a piece of tungsten that small will not have any impact on hooking. He's fishing for big fish and when the fish picks up the bait and turns with the bait in its mouth even though it's a longer than standard hook length it will still hook itself against the lead.

If it was a silty bottom and he was using pop up baits, most would understand the reason for the tungsten however that fact that he's stalking, using flourocarbon line, (noting most people don't realise how quickly flourocarbon sinks and how dense it is), all suggest its to avoid spooking the fish.

I can't see anything that suggests this is to do with hooking and still fail to see why carp anglers put lumps of silicon etc over their hooks as there are enough designer carp hooks and for me it's something else the fish can feel when they mouth a bait noting that if it ejects the bait, there are no guarantees the fish will prick itself and panic hooking itself against the lead, as fish can pick up a bait and eject it multiple times without the angler being aware even on the most sensitive bolt rigs.
 

Silver fan 82

Regular member
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
3,049
IME tungsten putty is used to pin mainline and more commonly hooklinks to the lake bed to make them less obvious to wary fish.
The weight of the lead combined with hook patterns, length of hair rig, length of hooklink, use of silicone hook kickers etc are what aid in hooking a fish.
How did we get here from the lift method? 😉
 

rudd

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
6,910
Lift experts - the couple of times I've tried it, I found the float wants to go under when you sink the line or tighten down.

What's the best way to get the rig fishing do you find? Quick wind down and in the rests?

Tried the sunk float in the margins quite well.
Yes, shot float (ironically a piece of brown/green tungsten putty works well as bits can be added/subtracted and it does not stand out like a shot) with about an inch of tip showing then gently wind down.
I used to have a few sets of drennan lift floats and held them on line with a bit of silicon using putty as the shot.
Could then go up or down a shotting size if required.
Sold both sets last year for a stupid amount as I prefer to stick pointless bits of silicon on my hooks and rigs whilst fishing two rods right across the pond, bolt rigs and alarms at full volume. Need both hands free to roll spliffs, text and open cans of Stella you see.😕
 

Reuben

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
3,172
Lift experts - the couple of times I've tried it, I found the float wants to go under when you sink the line or tighten down.

What's the best way to get the rig fishing do you find? Quick wind down and in the rests?

Tried the sunk float in the margins quite well.
I just shot the float normally with a small shot 6” from the hook. Fish less than 6” over depth. When a fishy picks up the bait & lifts the shot off the deck the float lifts then I strike. Sometimes I connect with said fishy & sometimes not. Don’t know what all the fuss is about. I’m sure there are more scientific methods but I don’t use them.
 

squimp

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,845
Rick you seem to have caused a lot of confusion, probably caused by two factors, the title referring to the lift method and the fact that some haven't looked at the video you referred to.

For me the tungsten serves one purpose only and that is to keep the line flat on the bottom, noting that in Adams video he has tungsten both on the hook length and as back leads, not to mention flourocarbon line which also will keep the line nailed to the bottom. Basically when big carp feed and browse, if they feel the line they become suspicious and can spook.

Looking at the rig, the hook length is longer than many bolt rigs which gives distance from the lead to avoid suspicion. The tungsten in my opinion serves one purpose only and that is to make sure that when the carp waft the bait about the line stays on or near the bottom thus avoiding liners and spooking the fish, noting that a piece of tungsten that small will not have any impact on hooking. He's fishing for big fish and when the fish picks up the bait and turns with the bait in its mouth even though it's a longer than standard hook length it will still hook itself against the lead.

If it was a silty bottom and he was using pop up baits, most would understand the reason for the tungsten however that fact that he's stalking, using flourocarbon line, (noting most people don't realise how quickly flourocarbon sinks and how dense it is), all suggest its to avoid spooking the fish.

I can't see anything that suggests this is to do with hooking and still fail to see why carp anglers put lumps of silicon etc over their hooks as there are enough designer carp hooks and for me it's something else the fish can feel when they mouth a bait noting that if it ejects the bait, there are no guarantees the fish will prick itself and panic hooking itself against the lead, as fish can pick up a bait and eject it multiple times without the angler being aware even on the most sensitive bolt rigs.
I absolutely disagree with most of that.

Probably the first post from DB that I would question.......and I’ve read loads !
 

dave brittain 1

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
2,741
Squimp In the video he tells you it's a bottom rig. He has tungsten putty in front of the lead and behind it plus he's using fluorocarbon which keeps it nailed to the deck. It's an anti spook rig for me.

If you disagree with the hooking principle and the fact that a fish can eject whatever rig you put infront of it multiple times without the angler being aware this was proven during filming to better understand carp rigs and what actually happens under water.
 

squimp

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,845
My take on it is that with a bottom bait hair rig set up, a large lump of tungsten putty an inch or two up the hooklink from the hook eye makes the rig more efficient at hooking fish.

Ive used rigs like that regularly for over a decade and they work. Some of my mates do the same.

I wrote in detail about rigs (albeit relating to hooking bycatch bream) in a thread in January - search for ‘upturned eye’ and you might find it.....

lots of the materials sold for ‘carp’ hooklink are positively buoyant (despite the packaging saying otherwise) - so those of us that care about these things put weight of one sort or another on the hooklink to help sink it. That is the ‘anti spook’ bit. The big blob near the hook does a separate job (we think !).

‘Lumps of silicone’ on/around the hook are there for a reason. We think they help hook the fish too......

Google ‘withy pool‘ rig. That will make you laugh; but it works.
 

dave brittain 1

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
2,741
My take on it is that with a bottom bait hair rig set up, a large lump of tungsten putty an inch or two up the hooklink from the hook eye makes the rig more efficient at hooking fish.

Ive used rigs like that regularly for over a decade and they work. Some of my mates do the same.

I wrote in detail about rigs (albeit relating to hooking bycatch bream) in a thread in January - search for ‘upturned eye’ and you might find it.....

lots of the materials sold for ‘carp’ hooklink are positively buoyant (despite the packaging saying otherwise) - so those of us that care about these things put weight of one sort or another on the hooklink to help sink it. That is the ‘anti spook’ bit. The big blob near the hook does a separate job (we think !).

‘Lumps of silicone’ on/around the hook are there for a reason. We think they help hook the fish too......

Google ‘withy pool‘ rig. That will make you laugh; but it works.
Squimp I like good healthy debate as this was what the forums excelled at before some of the great thinking anglers like Giles Cochran and Steve Ringer stopped posting.

I've looked at the Withy rig and multiple other rigs over the years so I'll give you my two peneths worth. When I wrote my way with the waggler which was the first comprehensive article on pellet waggler fishing published on the internet, I made a number of key statements in that article. The one that is key here is how you'd get very quick bites and dips on the float that many anglers put down to silvers, however a 2inch change in depth would see these fast dips and bobs converted into sail away bites. My theory then which stands to this day was that some fish particularly the bigger wiser fish would come from below and suck at the bait. If it didn't come freely they'd eject it before you got an indication and that was the dip.

That 2 inches is critical as is the free movement of bait when a fish sucks at it. Lets also not forget that neutral buoyancy and critically balanced rigs were introduced to allow fish to freely suck up bait yet the rig Rick uses isn't neutrally buoyant so if a fish tries to suck it up from several inches away and that bait stays on the bottom, if fish are as clever as some would make out it could mop up every piece of feed and leave that one left on the bottom which has been demonstrated in video's where the rig with the hook in it was the only one left.

However in reality does fishing actually work like the above, where we can theorise everything, sometimes supported with unarguable evidence before sods law comes along and proves us all wrong again.

If you remember Giles hook in the loop method, great theory until I think it was Steve Ringer if I remember rightly questioned the theory with a simple statement that the reason why the rig was so effective was the proximity of the bulk to the hook which then got everybody thinking about the mechanics of the rig and how effective it was. However Giles innovation and thinking was brilliant, even the Italian fly team came up with a hinging fly leader based on the same principles of the hook in the loop, in that they designed a leader with multiple joined loops that hinges in undulating river currents, basically eliminating the drag you would suffer with a standard leader, noting drag kills presentation and is one of the main cause of rejections in dry fly fishing.

Going onto your reference to the in turned eye, Alan Scotthorne was one of the first match anglers who commented on how the knotless knot when tied correctly changes the angle that the hook sat at and angle, creating an in-turned hook effect that he stated aided hook up to bite ratio. I won't go into QM1's, in-turned and circle hooks or the use of silicone because for me the hook has to perform three functions, hook the fish, keep the fish on and stay sharp. I do have patterns I prefer but like many things in fishing this is personal preference

I've been using hair rigs in match fishing for over 20 yrs now and over the years I've tried more ways of trying to get an edge than I can remember and for me, although I've seen angling evolve significantly the basic fundamentals have always remained the same.

I do get the feeling that many theories and concepts are flawed but still work and I've also seen anglers do things and make them work when in reality they shouldn't work but that is the beauty of fishing.

My hair rigs are simple, I use a band for everything and that band is generally situated 2/3rds the size of the bait I'm using below the bend of the hook. There's no silicone, I use as strong a hook as I can get away with. I use a band for meat, corn boilies and pellet simply stretching the band and pulling it into the bait, (I pre-drill big pellets and boilies). and will use bacon grill and a piece of spaghetti if I have to cast meat any distance or if I'm using a big feeder).

For me the more complicated and more material you put on a rig, the less natural the bait will sit and behave therefore I like to keep it as minimal as possible.

The other thing to bear in mind is that if hair rigs theory was perfect, if the hook pricks the fishes mouth on ejection, how come we miss so many bites when pellet fishing for F1's and carp :unsure: It's not black and white and if we are honest there's an awful lot of grey.

The other thing is rigs in carp and match fishing can be very personal. They all work when employed correctly but the key is being confident in your theory and what you use.

I remember Bob Roberts dink dink feeder rig and people saying that will never work however when the Trent was full of little chub it was devastating as they'd hit the feeder on the way down which brings me to my final thoughts.

People concentrate on rigs however the key point in any fishing is that if the fish are feeding confidently, particularly if they are competing for the feed the rig to a degree isn't as important and providing it is fundamentally appropriate you will still catch.

The other thing I do wonder about is that the straight paternoster/feeder/lead rig with a simple hook length, hair rig catches a lot of fish. How much of these multiple rigs such as the withy pool curve etc, the coated lines, tungsten putty is led by marketing? Call me sceptical but I have a feeling this is a very big part of it and if it's like match fishing people buy the bits and pieces, play with it and then go back to what they used to do.

I may be getting sceptical in my old age but I still think fishing is a simple sport that too many of us over complicate, myself included :ROFLMAO:
 

squimp

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,845
Great stuff Dave; thank you for making the time to construct such an expansive reply. I like a good debate too.

Some of the stuff you are talking about goes straight over my head. For example; pellet waggler fishing. I’ve never even tried it - but I get the bit about 2” depth changes making a difference. I know you fly fish - so I can relate to micro depth changes in that sphere. Zig rig carp fishing can work like that too.

one or two points - it’s a bit naughty taking things slightly out of context - but here goes.....

’the less natural the bait will sit’ - you seem to be inferring that natural is good ? That may not always be the case, an unnatural bait will stand out from the free offerings - so it might be taken more quickly. Also I go back to my original point about what the hook does in the fishes mouth - an unbalanced (ungainly might be a better word) rig will hook the fish better than a lovely streamlined one that the fish can blow back out easily....some of ours (odd shaped baits for example) are deliberately designed to confuse the fish. A long thin bait on a hair (for example) is hard for the fish to eject.

’An awful lot of grey’ - I completely get that with rigs. IMO you can always build a better mousetrap......most carp anglers have the mindset that they find something that works and they duplicate it on all their rods and then sit there waiting for a fish to make a mistake. My regular fishing mate and I don’t fish like that. I change things even when I’m catching in a (never ending) quest to make things work better. I do the same fly fishing for permit (about the hardest fishing there is) some people think I’m mad - but if you don’t try something.......you don’t learn new stuff. I’ve caught permit on experimental flies, whether that fish would have eaten a ‘standard’ pattern I will never know.

Back to my bream rig experiment. If 2 competent anglers sitting 300 yards apart get exactly the same reactions (as in 1 works and one doesn’t work so well) to two different rigs; the likely inference (to me) is that one rig is working better than the other. It turns out that we (my mate and I) both caught more fish on the rig with the ‘radical’ tubing......

The ‘dink dink’ - I was one of the first to use a very similar rig for tench fishing. As you state, you show it to people and they say it won’t work ! Now (30+ years down the road) it is standard issue for tench and roach specialist anglers. And bream don’t like it either.

I love ‘chewing the cud’ with thinking anglers - hopefully we all learn something.

Perhaps you could demonstrate (teach me !) pellet waggler fishing sometime. Whether I can offer you anything in return is questionable........
 

dave brittain 1

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
2,741
Squimp what I mean buy natural is a bait that falls though the water like a loose offering and will sit on the bottom where it landed, naturally. A big hook or weight of any kind affects it's ability to act naturally when fish wafts it or roots nearby. For me this is where some of these rigs may be flawed.

With bream, you can sit on a traditional feeder rig, (paternoster set up with a 3ft hook length), get nice liners and indications and then the tip will go around, however if you watch the matrix submerged video's they clearly demonstrate that when the feeder lands in general it is within 6inches or so of the feeder. This is essence means that the fish has to pick up the bait and move 2.5ft before the angler gets the pull around. If the dynamics change and the angler twitches the feeder straightening everything out, the fish in theory could move 2ins and you'd get a pull on the tip. The downside is if it picks up the bait and moves in the opposite direction it could travel 6ft before you get an indication. Food for thought, however the same angler who's been catching a bream every 20 minutes or so could pick up the method and fish it over the top and get 4 fish in the same 20 minutes because of the effectiveness of the rig, (it's a very effective tactic in some bream matches where the method is allowed). Nothing to do with hook rigs just a simple change in set up/presentation and being ultra direct/positive. The other thing you need to consider with bream is how you have fed/feed as this will impact what you catch more than anything else.

The pellet waggler has blown on many venues but when it kicked off it was very effective, the point I was trying to make was that when a bait is falling naturally through the water and the fish sucks it in, there's no resistance and bites are positive. However change that presentation so that there is limited fall/travel and after falling so far the bait becomes suspended, the resistance of the float prevents further travel and the fish feeding from below can feel this and eject the bait immediately. Is this any different from when a fish is feeding on the bottom and it goes to suck a bait up, hindered by an unnatural weight?

There's a great deal of food for thought? I don't think it is, it's not a lot different to fine quiver tip and a heavy quiver tip, tick line/thin lin where the fish feels the resistance.

On fluorocarbon I had a discussion with one fly angler who maintained that Flourocarbon was that dense it would drag flies down to the point where you had to fish a quicker retrieve to avoid snagging weed on the bottom. My view was that a low diameter nylon would cut through the water just as quickly as a significantly thicker flourocarbon however I couldn't have been more wrong. This was bought home to me during a particularly hard nymph fishing session on the Wiltshire Avon. It was bright, cold and the river was low and very clear. After losing a nymph, (single nymph only allowed), and my tippet material on a snag, I decided to rig up with a 9ft 3lb Orvis Mirage Flourocarbon level line leader and an identical size 18 2.8mm copper headed nymph. Time after time the nymph caught on the blanket weed bottom dragging my level fly line indicator tip under. Normally the nymph simply skips along on or very near the bottom. A quick change to a Middy Low vis tippet, in the same diameter resolved the issue and the nymph stopped dragging. To double check I changed back to the Flourocarbon, same problem again. I was totally bemused and wouldn't have believed it unless I'd experienced it. This just goes to show that despite 40 odd years angling I still have a lot to learn.

The theory of carp rigs and baits will never fail to bamboozle me because in any fishing situation the rig is irrelevant unless the fish are feeding.

Presentation and rigs are one thing but feeding is also key and for me it's more important than presentation because if fish are feeding and competing for the bait they will mop up the bait while moving onto to the next bit of feed without thought as it's an ingrained habit. By time it's moved from one piece of feed to another, providing the trap has been set correctly it's hooked itself or given the angler the indication he was looking for to allow him to set the hook. Providing the rig is fit for purpose, it will have done it's job regardless of whether its a simple or complex rig, so we are now back to is the rig as critical as some think or is feeding more important?
 

squimp

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,845
All good stuff , thank you.

Im well aware of the bream rig issue - I started using short hooklink rigs for them in 1991. I might be immodest but it revolutionised the way specialists fish for bream. Ihave a little chuckle when I see the Matrix underwater videos. I’m lucky in that my fishing mate used to make underwater fishing videos for Fox etc etc - so we can go test anything we like.....for example Fluoro mainlines (a big thing for carpers about 10 years ago) don’t do what they are supposed to.

I get the bit about fluorocarbon leaders and fly fishing - it does affect the depth at which the flies will fish. In the trout competition world (of which I take no part) Fluoro nymph rigs were a closely guarded secret for a few years !

I also get the bit about feeding being key. And that I think is where specialists like me have most to learn. That’s one of the reasons I come on here -to learn Match style stuff. The default specialist setting is to fill it in and wait for the fish to sort things out....that might work on a three day session - but isn’t much use for a matchman ! As my sessions get shorter and shorter as I learn about when fish will want to feed (a whole other subject in itself) so how I actually apply that feed becomes a (maybe ‘the’) critical factor. If I only fish for a couple of hours (more and more frequently the case) too much bait would be catastrophic. Still work in progress.....

Finally; presentation. I agree that if the feeding is right the presentation becomes less important. But I once caught a carp on a really unusual rig and it’s the only fish I’ve ever caught where I honestly think that I would not have caught it unless I’d tried that rig. It was the only bite in 3 days on a super difficult water with about a dozen anglers present. I haven’t cast that rig out again since.

As some famous angler once said ‘ the words always and never do not apply to fishing’. The trick is to work out the percentages so that we catch ‘em as quickly as possible.......
 
Top