The Fire Brigade dispute....

[Dave]

Go on then, someone had to ask the question so it might as well be me.
What are your feelings on the Fire Brigade dispute bearing in mind that most polls todate have been equally split?

Mine? Well I believe that they do deserve every penny they earn as I would not like to rush into a burning building unsure of what dangers lie ahead, nor would I like to be faced with pulling bodies free from mangled car wrecks and believe that they should receive a wage that reflects the dangers and the conditions that they have to endure.

Over to you (and keep the flames down []).....

Dave

 

[scouse]

hi dave
could not agree more
they deserve every penny
they get,my lad works as a spark
on the ships and earns
3times what they get
to put it in perspective
he has 200 stopages every week,[:0]
so good luck to them
they deserve it

dave

scouse (and proud of it)

 

[Guest]

If they get the 40% that they demand Dave, what about the nurses, the ambulance crews, and yes even the porters in the hospitals, after all they see the mangled bodies of people.

What sort of pay rise do they deserve.

catch me if u can
Andy,

 

[martin.]

hi
i agree with the firemen wanting more pay & that they deserve
every penny but i dissagree with the all out strike.
if it was my house or one of yours that was alight & there was risk to life they would not break the strike
BUT if it was one of there own & it was close to where they were picketing do you think they would just stand there.
i am against anyone striking when it could endanger life

tight lines.
martin.
talk fishing flip football

 

[Dave]

I'm not sure on the 40% increase, as indicated a 16% would be more feasible. The 40% was based I partly believe on the fact that the MP's managed to award themselves that as an increase to their expense allowances - and we all know where that goes []

Dave

 

[Peter]

Very emotive subject this.

Would you do their job for 21,000 a year. Personaly speaking NO
However they are fully aware of what the job pays when they take the job!!!!
There are about 40 applicants for every Fire Brigade job that becomes vacant,so no shortage of people willing to do it for the money.

The very nature of the shift patterns mean that many firemen have 2nd jobs,and even run their own business's whilst off duty.

Should they have a NO STRIKE clause in their contracts the same as the Police?

BAMBI and the New Age Conservatives (sorry New Labour[}])seem hell bent on turning the Fire Brigade into the new MINERS and want to break the union.

I don't think that many would complain at the 16% figure that they seemed to have reached agreement with the local authorities on,but it seems that the government are hell bent on forcing the issue.
It remains to be seen if it will backfire on them come the next election.

Peter.

Make Friends,
Go Maggotdrowning.

 

[Geoff P]

I am totally against the idea of any strike for more money.

The 40% demand from the firefighters is a disgrace.

They are not prepared to change their antiquated working practices. A lot of the firemen have second jobs because, supposedly, they cannot afford to live on the wages they get. How many of them will give up their second jobs if they get the full pay rise. Not many.

As for the firemen risking their lives all the time, less than 10% of their time is spent actually out on calls and less than a half of that time is fighting fires.

My heart bleeds for them - NOT

Geoff

Clean Banks Campaign member

 

[se mc]

must agree they earn there crust.and there current wage is no wear near the mark.thats what i think anyway

ste mc []

 

[Dave]

The one interesting thing that I noticed Peter was on the 6.00pm news it was stated that Prescot (sorry Mr Prescot) was reputed to have been given the results of the overnight talks and the decisions that had been reached.
He chose not to read them until his office opened at 9.00am and then dismissed them 5 minutes later. It was this that apparently sparked off the latest strike action.

He was reputed to have said that he disagreed with the settlement terms - a decision that he made within 5 minutes yet the discussions took all night

Dave

 

[martin.]

this 21,000, im not exactly sure but i believe that some of them say, the ones in london get a good premium on top of there wage
due to the cost of living & accomadation in different areas.
in the area i live there arnt many people in that wage bracket


tight lines.
martin.
talk fishing flip football

 

[Guest]

Dave looks as tho you have started some thing here mate.

And another thing how much do the top dog union men get paid [?][?], why dont they take a pay cut to help the firemen out, do they risk their lives,me thinks not, are they on strike pay [?][?],doubt it.

I wonder what they would do with my wages, i risk my life every time i go up a ladder to the roof, 5 days a week, for 6.26 an hour.
But that is of my choice, 20k plus per year, yes please

catch me if u can
Andy,

 

[teepee]

What the firemen do is not in question yes they do a job that would not suit everyone and yes there is dangers, but they know that when they apply for the job, do they deserve a pay rise yes but what the system can afford,

should they be on strike NO! any public service that is there to safe guard the public should not be allowed to strike,
It should be apart of there contract that they are not allowed to with-draw there services e.g. strike.

public saftey and lives are at risk and that should not be allowed,


teepee.

 

[paul mc]

I personally think everybody should have the right to withdraw their labour if they feel they are being unfairly treated or underpaid, which in my opinion the firemen are.I dont think because on section of public workers are grossly underpaid(the nurses)they all have to be. I also think the fireman deserve a lot of credit for sticking to their principals and standing upto the overpaid bullsh****g so called politicians.
Just because there are 40 applicants for every firemans job dosent mean they are 40 suitable/worthy applicants.
Thats what i think for what its worth.
I woulnt belive any opinion polls either as they will all have seperate agendas or just goverment propaganda.


Regards Paul Mc

 

[scouse]

alan
well said
you have put it in a nut shell
do you want to stand
i'll vote for you lol

dave

scouse (and proud of it)

 

[esox.20]

I will declare my interest in this subject first.

I am a retired fire fighter and after 28.5 years service I was retired early with bad health. My pension is not linked in any way to any increases in pay of a fire fighter.

Firstly the employers earlier this year agreed to move the pay formula. By doing so it put the fire fighters in the pay bracket of 32,000 per annum.

They offered 16% before the FBU had chance to accept it was stopped by Prescott.

At the time of the last strike in 1977 a MP's pay was comparable to a fire fighters, is it today? No.

Now we come to the so called modernisation, official figures proove that there are 4 times as many deaths after midnight than in the day. So labour wants to reducr the numbers on duty?.

There may be less fires but the biggest and most severe are at night. So labour want to reduce the numbers on duty.

The majority of serious road accidents occur after the pubs are shut. So labour want to reduce the numbers on duty.

To make up the shortfall in numbers of fire fighters on duty at night labour want to modernise the Fire Service by having off duty members available from there homes. In effect an increase in the numbers of hours worked is this modernisation?? or a throw back to the Victorian era?

Any over time worked is taken in to consideration when the pay formula is worked out so the more they earn in over time results in no basic pay increases. Not even in line with inflation.

The labour party are telling so many lies that its unreal.

As an example of just how much the British public is held in regard by them is shown by this example.
There are just over 3100 fire appliances nation wide they think that by bringing in 927 green goddess' that they are not putting the public at risk.

Strange isnt it that the rules and regulations covering the Fire Service and laid down by the Home Office which every fire authority has to obey is so easily discarded and ignored by them. They are in breach of these regulations and in fact may be breaking the law.

As to 40 applications to every job vacancy yes there are as there are to most half decent jobs advertised. To overcome this the fire service was forced to adopt a system where by unsuitable candidates were rejected at the first fence, normaly this was done because the applicants did not reach the medical standards laid down. Therefore the number of applicants was reduced to between 5 and 10 per post available.

I support strongly there claim for a pay rise but 40% is probably over the top. 16% to me is a fair deal. Modernisation...Yes as long as it is modernisation and not an attempt to reinstall practices that were stopped 25 years ago. They work 42 hours a week now, 7 hours over the national average. A night shift is 15 hours. So are the proposals for modernisation truely that, I think not.

chill out go fishing

 

[norm]

i have looked et every one posts.
i am keeping my bloody mouth shut and keeping my self to my self

(if you want really to know my feelings either pm me or e-mail me)

 

[Geoff P]

quote:They work 42 hours a week now, 7 hours over the national average. A night shift is 15 hours. So are the proposals for modernisation truely that, I think not.

A night shift of 15 hours, of which 8 hours are normally spent in bed. 42 hours a week makes their hourly rate about 10 ( a good crack while asleep)if their wage is 21000 a year.

Of course I am really gullible and believe that they spend all of their time fighting fires, cutting poor distressed motorists out of their cars, rescuing scared cats from trees etc. etc.

As I stated earlier I am against strikes for any reason but to strike just for money smacks of pure greed.

Alan,

It is no good ranting against what the politicians pay themselves. That has been the case ad infinitum. The largest pay rises in Parliament always come about when the labour party are in power (and they would have you believe they only serve for the good of the country).

Stating the bad practices of other areas of society does not mean that every greedy proposal should be met. I would never forgive them if their actions harmed a member of my family.

Geoff

Clean Banks Campaign member

 

[esox.20]

No Geoff they dont spend all there time doing that. Every minute from 0700 till 2359 is alloted to various tasks.
These vary from training which takes up most of any morning. To fire prevention duties and other visits having visits to station hydrants and any thing else thrown at them. Before I left they introduced P.T. to increase levels of fitness. An hour was allocated for this the problem was they did not remove anything from the work load to make way for it. So we had to fit that in with every thing else. No excuses not even fire calls are accepted if you fall behind in your scheduled tasks
Sleep on duty oh how I wished lol yes we stood down, sleep? a cat nap perhaps. May be I didnt need to go bed when I went off night shift/s and it was all a dream.


Geoff the actions of this goverment show clearly how much respect they have for the public by NOT sorting this out before any action became inevitable. They are putting lives at risk with the third rate substitute put in place.

If labour follow history the fire loss figures for this period will never be published just like back in 1977.

The county councils (fire authorities) do not get the green goddess' and troops free they have to pay for them. The cost is far higher than it would cost to fund a yers pay increase. This money comes from the emergency funds held so does not reflect itself in all normal budgets. Labour are laughing at us paying twice for the troops. Even the troops are not given any protective clothing all they have is their battle dress.

chill out go fishing

 

[ben grim]

110% support from me.

I,M NOT DAFT,JUST HAPPY.
DEATH IN VEGAS

 

[Del-J]

Of course a 40% pay rise is to much (unless you are a politician),but has anybody ever heard of somebody asking for the amount they expect to get. No they ask for more than they expect and the employers offer LESS than they expect to settle on. Then hopefully a compromise is reached.
It has been said on here that fireman know the wage when they take the job.True but is there one of us that don't take a pay rise due to the fact that we knew the wage when we started the job.........of course there isn't.
Andy says he risks his life every time he climbs a ladder at work. I am sure you will be the first to admit Andy that the circumstances between you and the firemen are as different as chalk and cheese.
I could go on but in the main I would be repeating what Trogg has already said. I am breaking a long standing habit here in the fact that I agree with EVERY word that Troggie has said.
As for Geoff's remark that on a night shift they spend 8 hours in bed I can only say this; a service man's prime purpose is to fight for his/her country. How much of the average serviceman's time is spent fighting. VERY, VERY LITTLE THANK GOD. Also when on guard duty they do 2hours on and 4 hours off. Should we then keep them on a low wage for the job because they don't fight very often. Like the servicemen the firefighters are paid for what they may have to do as much as for what they do.
How many of us "work" all the hours we are paid for? Not many I am willing to bet. No names and no pack drill but I know of one person on here who has admitted to me that he spends close on 6 hours a day in the rest room watching t.v etc. Thats not his fault it is the nature of his job, and good luck to him I say.
One other thing it has been said on here that the firemen will not cross their picket lines to go to the aid of "Joe Public" if there was a danger to life. Wrong they have done it on more than one occasion and IMHOthey will continue to do so.
I agree that firemen in London get extra money as "London waiting allowance" but who works in London and doesn't get it. Not very many of that I'm sure.

Del

Not fishing? Then talk to your mates on M/Ds.