The Difference Between Rugby and Football

Neil ofthe nene

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Referencing the Man U v Chelsea game yesterday.

In rugby a high tackle gets you a yellow card and a penalty to your opponents, in football a high tackle gets - nothing.

Are VAR officials now just making themselves look stupid?
 

Northantslad

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Oh god....Neil, this one????
In Rugby, whether penalised or not, you can guarantee that there will also be retaliation taking place within the rules due to the nature of the game, or outside of the rules but going unnoticed, again because it can go unnoticed. He/she nailed me, so i will nail them back.

Footballers this, footballers that, rugby players are all gents.............yea yea yea i get it, and they (footballers) don't help themselves, and although this isn't the direction you wanted the thread to go, it is the way it will and has started to go i see.

Two different games with two different dynamics, the worst thing to happen to football was reducing the contact- two fold- players no longer know how to tackle when needing to and relevant to this, how do they vent frustration nowadays on the pitch? Can't do this, can't do that...coiled springs...bang!

To answer the question mate, yes VAR is still reliant on human decisions and yes i think they are making themselves look perhaps not competent.

In anticipation of the thread going where it will, i will just add my final piece how wonderful rugby is and how everyone who plays it is a true gent and how football and footballers are the opposite, been some national players doing some not so great things re covid recently.....oh and some national footballers did too.................
 

Northantslad

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What you did see though and where Rugby governance may be better than footballs, is the prompt decision in cancelling the game. If such effective governance differences do exist, i would think that extends also to officiating, rule making and enforcement. Which football granted is somewhat of a mess currently with VAR highlighting that.
 

Arch

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The difference is that in rugby the players respect the ref but in football they do not.

Quite simply this.

Surely, even the football fans on here can agree that the ref in football isn't respected enough. Where as the decisions by the ref in rugby is taken as it should be. Although, back chat is slowly creeping into rugby.
 

Arch

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The other thing rugby does is have an official in a van watching the game independent from the ref other that a microphone. If the ref misses something, the television match official (TMO) informs the ref and the ref watches replays on a big screen and a decision is made on what is seen. The game stops while this happens, but it works. Sometimes the on field decision look correct until you watch it on the big screen, then everyone can see what the correct decision should be. It works. Why doesn't football adopt something similar ??
 

nejohn

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The other thing rugby does is have an official in a van watching the game independent from the ref other that a microphone. If the ref misses something, the television match official (TMO) informs the ref and the ref watches replays on a big screen and a decision is made on what is seen. The game stops while this happens, but it works. Sometimes the on field decision look correct until you watch it on the big screen, then everyone can see what the correct decision should be. It works. Why doesn't football adopt something similar ??
Not quite though is it, I note a French player is being sighted for foul play in yesterday's game well after the game has finished and it happens quite a lot. No advantage to the Welsh team yesterday but an advantage to the Irish team next week.
Also a lot more underhand tactics in Rugby than there are in Football as for respecting the Ref yes but it is quite quickly moving away from the respect that people believe there is, just watch some of Alun Wyn Jones's tactics always trying to influence the referees.
A lot of the hype is based on when rugby was nearly all amateur or at best professional but with not great wages once the money increases so will the win at all costs attitude, the difference is Rugby is about 30 years behind football but if it continues to grow and wages etc increase then it will soon catch up
 

Arch

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I don't see what that's got to do with VAR or rugbys TMO.

France will start with 15 next week, so Ireland won't benefit from a player being banned. I didn't watch the game, so don't know what happend.

My point is that other sports have systems in place that work with regards disputed decisions, football seem to want to plough ahead with their own system, that from an outsider, doesn't seem to work. They could change it.
 

OldTaff

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I hope it doesn’t catch up - the yellow card & sin bin has always been a significant deterrent against stupidity and foul play in rugby so I hope it remains so and refs continue to stand strong against dissent.
 

Northantslad

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I might be wrong, but i would hazard a guess that the people governing Rugby are largely if not all ex players, potentially a massive factor. And yes agree Arch, you do see things creeping into Rugby, as neJohn suggested as the money and win at all costs grows. Same with women's football, which is now just entering that stage, leaving the why can't the mens game be as honest as this stage.
 

Arch

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I agree with regards money ruining sport, and hope rugby doesn't end up that way. Hopefully not. There isn't the same amount of money about in rugby.

I just find it hard to understand how, when other sports have in place systems that work for disputed decisions, that football can't, or doesn't want to, sort the VAR system out.
 

Scribe

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I believe that the Third Match Official TMO, is watching the 'action' footage, where inevitably cameras follow the ball / play that is about to occur. Post match citings in rugby occur, when all the un-televised footage is watched. I wouldn't say that it happens quite a lot as @nejohn suggests. There is a rugby mantra 'Body in the furnace, head in the freezer'.

As for respecting the referee, trying to influence the referee is one thing, arguing, shouting and some of nose to nose confrontations by football players against the referee, just wouldn't be tolerated in rugby. If a player verbalized disagreement with the ref, then the player's team was marched back tem yards. I have even know a referee march a team back twice in sucession, behind their own try line, with the comment 'keep going and you will be behind your own deadball line'. Usually for the team being marched 10 yards back is enough for the rest of the team to tell an arguing player to 'belt up !'.

I have coached junior rugby from the age of 8 upwards, and respect for the referee starts at junior level, the message being,you may not agree with the referee, but he is the law.With oider teams I have coached I used to say play the referee as you would the ball, you can mention that the opposition are doing x against the law of the game, but don't disagree with the ref, as he isn't going to change his decision. This is something that on the whole the parents of junior players pick up, when they are on the sidelines. I can't say I have witnessed much in the way of parental dissent directly aimed at the ref or if so not loud enough for him or the players to hear.

That's not to say that at senior level things are the same. Rugby is a full on contact game and yes it's inevitable that foul play will occur, the ref / linesman should deal with any 'techical' against the law foul play, the odd sneaky punch in a maul or ruck, was usually rewarded with the same. Given the opportunities there are in the game, it goes on a lot less than non-players would expect, Rugby laws and acceptance by referees to 'handbags' as it was called, has disappeared in the modern game. In the Good (bad) old days of rough rugby, can recall a game being called off 20 minutes from the start, due to the number of punchups there were and the ref simply having had enough.

I can't comment on football as I don't watch it, but the yellow card and sin bin does work, as does the TMO and the assistant referees (they will always be linesman to me) each with the ability to step in and advise the ref of foul play and thus reduce it.
 

Silverfisher

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VAR will or at least should work in the long run. Tmo in rugby and Drs in cricket didnt work so well to start with but are good parts of the games. As for the respect thing I think rugby has slipped a little in that regard, partially down to the money but probably mostly cultural change, but I highly doubt it'll ever reach the stage it has in football where the behaviour is often downright embarrassing quite a lot rather than just occasionally like in rugby.
 

Sam Vimes

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I just find it hard to understand how, when other sports have in place systems that work for disputed decisions, that football can't, or doesn't want to, sort the VAR system out.

VAR is being run by the same inept referees that it was supposed to help out. They have too much vested interest in not upsetting each other and preserving their jobs. It's daft enough that an on field referee can be dropped for poor performance one week only to find themselves "relegated" to being the VAR official the next. VAR is a farce because it's been given to useless referees to run. Missing things on the field is excusable. Some of the things that VAR officials are missing are not.
 

Silverfisher

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VAR is being run by the same inept referees that it was supposed to help out. They have too much vested interest in not upsetting each other and preserving their jobs. It's daft enough that an on field referee can be dropped for poor performance one week only to find themselves "relegated" to being the VAR official the next. VAR is a farce because it's been given to useless referees to run. Missing things on the field is excusable. Some of the things that VAR officials are missing are not.
I did wonder if the issue was down to hopeless refs more than the technology/system as it certainly looks that way.
 
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