The Ashes

Maesknoll

Chris
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I honestly think that there is too much emphasis on limited overs cricket, the players are taught to go hell for leather from ball one and have lost the art of the forward/backward defensive and the leave... the majority of our wickets have gone to poor shot selection... rather than rip snorter bowling from the shackle-draggers... we need to get away from games like "The Hundred" (my views on that format are well known) and T20... get our players more in tune with the 4/5 day game, more forethought and less crash bang wallop

It’s not going to happen though is it, the white ball game is lucrative, it’s fun (for newcomers and some long standing fans, although I appreciate some diehard test fans hate it) and it’s on the rise.

If the 100 was stopped here, it would only pop up somewhere else and draw players. Maybe white ball cricket could introduce a bonus amount of runs for wicket longevity and for the team that loses the least wickets, but I can’t see them agreeing to that, as it would detract from the spectacle.
 
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Lee Richards

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That would hold some weight Arry if the other test playing nations were not picking one day players in their Test sides.
But they are
England struggle because they don't have at least one other than Root that can consistently occupy the crease and bowlers that attack in tandem.

I love watching the Oz BBL and they have at least four or five of each discipline that are not in the test squad but have regularly played tests.
 

Arry

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I get what you are saying but the short game has destroyed our "crease stickability" and the style of coaching where players are told to "go out and express yourself" has no merit other than to allow players to think its okay to get out, we need platers who can pick up runs off the bad ball and stay at the crease and drop anchor if need be... christ when you are 5-50 you need to be a "Brigadier Block" rather than trying to bat your way out of it
 

Lee Richards

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Some players regardless of the format don't seem to have the "stickability" anyway and no amount of coaching can really add much if the ability and patience is not there.
English cricket does need a hard rethink and dropping the 100 would be a good start as the 20/20 and 50 over is more than enough.
Just can't see the four day game appealing to the young now after they have had a taster of more exciting cricket.
 

62tucker

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All about money in the long run. Young up and coming players can earn good money playing shorter formats. Why practice leaving a ball when to make a living they need to score off every ball possible.
 

Lee Richards

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To some extent it is but if you are starting out earning a living and can do something that you enjoy then why not play a sport that you and those watching can find exciting.
 

62tucker

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I can also see the tv companys dropping test cricket or not paying big money for it.
what viewing figures will they get for next 2 tests.
 

62tucker

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To some extent it is but if you are starting out earning a living and can do something that you enjoy then why not play a sport that you and those watching can find exciting.
Exactly my point. Malan bairstow stokes etc can make a lot more money playing limited overs. And not get any criticism from press at home
 

Lee Richards

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Best way for the ECCB to resurrect county cricket would be to have Test matches back on terrestrial tv - but how many would watch the 4th & 5th of this test series if they had?
 

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Half the problem is we simply aren’t producing enough good players. There’s so few county players with good records behind them that it’s hardly surprising that they’re rubbish when they make the test team. Then on the odd occasion we do pick someone with a good county record low and behold they work out well like Robinson and before the injuries archer although not sure what’s happened to pope!

There’s some good bowling depth genuine pace aside with Anderson, Robinson, Broad, Woakes, Porter, Coad, Cook, Norwell, Miles and Overton etc. But batting wise we have nothing beyond root unless pope sorts out whatever mental block he’s got going on as I don’t think bairstow will ever rediscover his red ball game and not really sure if stokes will ever be the same again now either. Just about everyone else we’ve picked since the end of the last away ashes has just had glaring technical issues and average county records so were never going to succeed. Then all the best batsman outside of the team still have pretty modest county records that are never likely to translate to a test player. For some of them it seems to be mental like with Vince and Clarke whilst with others there’s technical issues like with livingstone and Lawrence. We just don’t have any batsman with a sound technique and a sound mind to pick.

I don’t think the batting issue is exclusively an England problem though as around the world I’d say only India and NZ have genuinely strong batting line ups from 1 to down to 6/7/8. I’d say most other teams only have half a test class batting line up atm it’s just that we have even less! Too much t20 has got to be to blame for that as most the genuinely good batsman around the world came up before the real push of t20 or are players that don’t really move in the t20 circles.
 

Fugley-fisher

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This might be the worst ashes since I watched a 4-1 defeat in 02 / 03, the tests bearly went 4 days, watched a fledgling Jimmy Anderson on debut in a one day, day night game at the M C G remember thinking he will never make it, I may have got that one wrong. I can see Jimmy hanging up his boots when this one is done. I feel most sorry for the fans that have traveled, I can relate spending several thousand pounds to watch, but back in 02/03 we got 3 aus dollars to the pound and partied none stop and NO COVID.

How will the ECB fix the decline of the england test team 🤔 turning the clock back pre t20 never going to happen, making the 4 day domestic competition more lucrative so players concentrate on the longer format rather than t20, think the players chase the big bucks of the IPL, where attack attack attack is the order of the day.

We the cricket veiwing public are to blame, if the public turned up to 4 days of county cricket and stopped turning up to t20 this would put the spotlight and media attention back on longer format, the stars of tomorrow would want fame and fortune battling it out to become county champions and all of a sudden a very healthy test side would come along naturally.

But that's never going to happen, so as a long standing england supporter we will just have to suffer these embarrassing away tests to Australia.
 

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Think Jimmy will play through to the end of the home summer as he’s fit enough, still our bes bowler and would presumably want to finish in front of home crowds hopefully after a few wins as we’ll still win the odd home game off our bowling strength. Should think broad will go at the end of the summer now as well. Did think being younger he’d play on beyond Jimmy for a year or two for transitional purposes as much as anything. But it seems his powers are waning quicker than Jimmys to the point that Robinson is definitely better than him now and woakes probably as good and there always the half chance archer or stone will get fit again.
 

Lee Richards

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"We the cricket veiwing public are to blame, if the public turned up to 4 days of county cricket"

Fine in theory but people have to work and around that there are other responsibilities and interests that take up the time.
Take a day off work to watch a 50 over and see a result - most 20/20s are evening games - both suit peoples everyday lives.
 

Arry

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Archer is out till next Summer after another elbow op... I seriously think he was overbowled in his first tests and has been ruined for future games... I doubt you'll see him in future test matches...
 

Arry

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"We the cricket veiwing public are to blame, if the public turned up to 4 days of county cricket"

Fine in theory but people have to work and around that there are other responsibilities and interests that take up the time.
Take a day off work to watch a 50 over and see a result - most 20/20s are evening games - both suit peoples everyday lives.
As a lover of the 4 day game I attend the County ground as often as I can, I prefer it to the 50/ T20 formats... that said Essex still gets good crowds in on 4 day games... when you see the clubs with test grounds there is a lack of support for the 4 day game... seems that the smaller clubs have a better support for the 4 day game, perhaps its because the big players are away at T20 franchise games...?
 

Lee Richards

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Test grounds do tend to be a lot bigger though and even a decent crowd at say Edgbaston will look small due to the size of the ground.
Worcestershire is very quiet for a four day game and a lot of that is down to a lack of recent success.
The majority of the members will also be of senior years so they can afford to spend the time at the ground.
One day and especially 20/20 is a different story and the county actively promotes the family aspect.

Personally I think once our generation passes through the four day game will be in serious trouble as people like to see results in a sport .
Saying that though the standard of the 4 day game has regressed so much a fair few weather permitting don't last that long.
 

Fugley-fisher

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@Lee Richards I completely get that and it's the reason why T20 is has become the most popular format, its short exciting and affordable.

However if the cricket viewers want a stronger test side we have to indicate by footfall what sort of cricket we want to watch. By taking a couple days off work to watch your county side in a 4 day game, a bigger crowd will get the players making more effort in those games more publicity media coverage, you can't effect change without support. It's only my opinion mate.
 

Lee Richards

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It's a interesting thread and a topic that will be discussed by many.
I genuinely think the majority of the lower age groups are not interested in the longer formats and those that go the test matches do so because its a day out for the craic with their mates.
Very few would probably go to county games.
 

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It’s a bit of a double edged sword really people don’t go to the county games so there’s no atmosphere and that lack of atmosphere makes people not go to county games. I think it needs a real marketing push to get people to the county games that fall on weekends as get the atmosphere going and it’s not much different to going to a test match.

I still think in this country at least test match cricket still has a big pull on players partly down to the history and prestige but also the money and status. At international level you earn a lot more if you play tests than white ball and it still leaves time for a fair bit if franchise money as well. Then on the prestige side no one really remembers white ball performances and careers outside of global tournaments in the same way they do test cricket so if looking at staying relevant after cricket if you’ve had a decent test career it is a big boost. That might change in time but seems to still be the case at the moment.
 

The Landlord

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I see the England team have taken the title off Wuhan Street Markets for "Worst use of a bat"
 
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