Still Water Barbel - do they breed?

[Newt]

From the post by Malc in the "where ...." thread, I read of him catching a young barbel from a still water.

From other places I read that barbel CANNOT breed in still waters. In fact, that is one of the points the river barbel folks keep hammering on.

So, can they can or can they can't?

(didn't want to hijack the other thread)

Newt Vail

 

[Trogg]

Hi Newt

You know my feelings on still water barbus barbus.

This i must add isn't from experiance cos i've never had a still water barbel in fact i've never got a barble on the bank yet had them on the line just never managed to land one icon_smile_sad.gif


From reports etc that i've spent time reading it would seem they can't breed in still waters, the barbel needs a gravel type area to breed in & it also needs a running water.

AFAIK there are no reports of any barbel breeding succesfully in any of the still waters they have been introduced to.

There is an excellent fishery at Eccleshall just outside Stafford but i no longer use it as they started to stock barbel last year.

IMO any fishery that does stock barbel are only doing it for the money they can make, although in the long run they are throwing the money away as the fish will die without breeding.

Chub are one of the main fish used to "prove" that running water fish can adapt to still waters & breed succesfully, the chub is a very adaptable fish & this has been proven over many years so the comparision ends at running water.

There are many "experiments" going on as i type that are supposed to be studying whether or not barbus barbus can/cannot adapt to still waters, the problem being the main people conducting these experiments are actually big fisheries & the barbel are being fished for, IMHO if the experiment was to find out whether or not the barbel could adapt it would be better to put them in an isolated water where they don't face the risk of being caught & as such will not have to face any distress at being caught by anglers who don't know how to handle these delicate fish.

I know its not a lot Newt but i hope its helped in some way to answer your question.

Alan

 

[Stewart Bloor]

Barbel are a lithophilous species which means they require both flowing water and gravel to reproduce.

In fact, and I quote from EA literature, 'it is dubious practice to deliberately stock barbel into habitats where they are expected to live on a catch and release basis while being very unlikely to be able to spawn successfully'

 

[Trogg]

Thats what i said (only you said it using less words) icon_smile.gifLOL



Alan

 

[Stewart Bloor]

Just creeping round the Moderator that's all...you never know when you need them icon_smile_big.gif

 

[Newt]

Thanks Gents. I guess that means someone stocked the little fella Malc caught.

As to the rest, I respect the feelings of anglers who will not fish for barbel in still water - whatever their reasons.

However, I have and do take some exception to the oft voiced thing about (stated in various words) "it is bad to put barbel in where they can't breed since they won't then have a full life". That seems to ascribe human-like reasoning powers to fish and I have major doubts about that.

As the the quote from the EA, that just seems plain silly. UK coarse anglers fish for fun rather than food. Therefore, fish are used for recreation and water owners re-stock as needed. Cost of doing business for them.

Certainly, treat the fish well and release them healthy and as unharmed as possible. But mostly so they can provide sport for others at some later time. And partly because specious cruelty just plain isn't nice.

Fish are fish and are great for people to use for fishy things.

Enough from me on this topic (in fact, probably too much). Since I have never seen a barbel and certainly can't fish for them, I may be missing some point here.

Newt Vail

 

[Trogg]

OI REDNECK

i would invite you to come fish for ol barbus barbus with me but you'd probably land one first try n i'd still bloody lose mine icon_smile_big.gif

I'll send you a couple in a tank (do you think they'll survibe the "gentle" handling of the postal services??)

Alan

 

[Stewart Bloor]

Hello Newt. Another reason why some anglers are against barbel in stillwaters is that they require more oxygen and are less tolerant of high water temperatures than other fish.

Take carp and tench, for example, they thrive when it's hot, carp are often seen basking near the surface. But a barbel is more likely to be gasping at the surface, like a goldfish in a bowl.

The lethal concentration of oxygen is almost twice as high for barbel as it is for tench.

Personally, I am in the 'running water camp' for barbel, but I don't get carried away it (as some do!). For example I haven't threatened to beat anyone up yet because they want to put barbel in stillwaters
icon_smile_big.gif

 

[MALC]

I knew when i put the picture up that a thread like this would result
and i must admit that i would prefer to catch a Barbel from a river as i was bought up fishing for them on the Kennet.
But now a days the only chance a lot of people will ever get to catch a Barbel is from a stillwater and if the water has them then i'll fish for them.



Malc
Fish with Friends @ MaggotDrowning.com and take s from Dirk

 

[Adam S]

Hello all

not wanting to stir the pot here but i have a question:

Taking into account the above statement from the ea in
stewarts response, i was wondering what the EAs position
on rainbow trout is , as in 99% of cases they cannot spawn
in any uk waters (river or stillwater) and are stocked to
be caught (sometimes a number of times, sometimes just once)
and then eaten.

I believe this is also the case with all the salmonid hybrids
such as cheetah trout and obviously all triploids.
(triploids not only being denied the chance to spawn , but also
[genetically] being denied the ability)

So basically im wondering if the EA supports artificial trout
fisheries?

ADAM

 

[Newt]

MALC - regardless of anyone's opinions on this whole topic, I have been glad to see that no one did decide to take a pop at you for the fish. Seems reasonable to me since you only caught it and didn't stock it or make the decision to stock them or any of that.

I am very un-fond of fanatics of any stripe and one thing I have ejoyed about MD is their absence. I am eclectic though as I dislike religious fanatics, angling fanatics, and any other sorts you can think of.

It was nice to start this thread and receive information rather than rants.

And Adam - you raise some nice questions.

Newt Vail

 

[Trogg]

Newt Vail

For starting a thread such as this you have brought upon your kin & yourself the wrath of the almighty.

You shall recieve a punishment of the most heinous kind namely that of being a blanker (i did say blanker not wa...) this is the worst kind of punishment any angler could suffer (just ask Trogg) thy shadow shall never fall across the doors of angling fame & thou shalt never feel the exhilaration of that fish in a lifetime you shall be expelled to the dirtiest hole on the planet (middlesborough)

The time has come for the great angling religion to cleanse this planet of the flotsam & jetsam that floats on her surface, so rise brothers of the angle & let us start our crusade of cleanliness against those who would see our great religion fall


religiose angling nuts?? Nah not on this forum Newt icon_smile_big.gif

Alan

 

[Newt]

Oh my goodness gracious your magnificant, awesome, lofty Trogglyness Sir - how can I begin to say how very muchly, greatly, highly, mightily shamed I am.

Please, please relent. The punishment is just too awful and severe and I doubt I can survive it. icon_smile_dead.gifOh woe is me. I am doomed. Doomed, do you hear!!!

But other than that, everything is pretty well hunky dorey (that is US redneck for excellent icon_smile_big.gif .

This weekend the moon will be pretty well full and will be rising about the time the sun goes down so I plan a couple of late afternoon (to catch a few tiddler bluegills for bait) thru night sessions. Largemouth with lures until it is too dark to see where the boat is going then anchor and 2 lines out for catfish and another two out for carp. And will probably kill time between (hopefully) takes by tossing a lure suited for night pred fishing.

I do have a question though. The water used to be a regular river. Dammed at both ends for electrical power but they still flow a good bit of water thru it at times so it can be a still water today and a flowing water tomorrow. If I catch a barbel, will it be OK?

Newt Vail

Edited by - Newt on 21 June 2002 02:36:53 AM

 

[MALC]

Newt.

quote:The water used to be a regular river. Dammed at both ends for electrical power but they still flow a good bit of water thru it at times so it can be a still water today and a flowing water tomorrow. If I catch a barbel, will it be OK?

Good point.
Just call it a STILLRIVER and then it's sorted

Back to your original question
Do Barbel spawn in stillwater ?

Over the years i've heard a few fisheries say they have breed Barbel in their pools but personally i dought it very much as most are just mud carp hole's.

But when i younger i do remember fishing a canal type lake that was created as a stream with pumps to gain a flow and was home to Barbel and Salmon.
The pool in question had gravel runs and it was the only place in the 1970's that i ever caught a Barbel of less than a lb and the owner was certain that the Barbel in their were breed there so maybe !!

Sadley the pool in question was filled in around 1980 to build houses so i'll never realy know.



Malc
Fish with Friends @ MaggotDrowning.com

 

[Stewart Bloor]

The mention of Middlesborough and Newt has triggered off the memory of an incident that happened to me a few years ago. (Nothing to do with fishing mind, so if you're the sort who gets offended when fishing boards get taken up with irrelevant trivia, look away now icon_smile.gif)

I was walking through a mall in Hagerstown, Maryland, talking with an American friend. A lady, who heard my accent came up and asked me if I was from England. When I replied in the positive, she asked me if I knew John Smith from Middlesborough. (And she was deadly serious!)

I took her by genuine surprise when I told her that there were almost 60 million of us in the UK! She thought it was a little village where everyone knew everyone else.

These Northerners, eh Newt. A true blooded Johnny Reb wouldn't make that assumption would he? icon_smile_big.gif

 

[esox.20]

Newt I'd call it a miricle if you did catch a Barbel

chill out go fishing

 

[Trogg]

Hmm ok then redneck just this once icon_smile_wink.gif

BTW if you do get a barbel it should be killed, stuffed & mounted, just think about it mate it would be the first barbus barbus caught in the states it could even be the only one over there & its something you should treasure.


Alan

 

[Newt]

Alas. I checked and found you are absolutely correct. I found the list below of all countries where B. barbus is know to live and we aren't among the lucky ones. Native to all these places (except Morocco where it was introduced.

Andorra
Austria
Belarus
Belgium
Bulgaria
China
Czech
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Moldova
Monaco
Morocco
Netherlands
Poland
Romania
Russian
Slovakia
Switzerland
UK
Ukraine
Yugoslavia


Newt Vail

 

[Adam S]

Hello

There are no barbel in ireland , and i have never seen one in a
glass caseicon_smile_big.gif

ADAM

http://groups.msn.com/ADAMSALBUM79