Standardisation of hook sizes

PAB

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
1,150
Isn’t it about time there was some sort of standardisation of hook sizes I understand there are a huge number of different strength and shank lengths required but a simple standardisation so a size 12 Mustard, Kamasan ,Preston all had identical Gape or front length or even bite but no they are all different and some by a huge degree the size on the packet means bugger all. is it 12 millimetres 12 inchs 12 yard 12 Bananas 12 what?
 

mickthechippy

space cadet
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
15,735
I have a vintage steel item that has hook sizes engraved into it, (possibly a hardy thing)

if you offer up pretty near any modern hook to the appropiate size on the guide, 90% are nothing like it

this is why I stick to just a couple of manufacturers and use mainly drennan and middy, though the difference between an 18 drennan and an 18 middy is quite stark
 

chris1967

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
1,073
most anglers will only stick to sizes and a preferred make ,and wont complicated things by buying loads of different makes and patterns ,guru pellet for me wont buy anything else .
 

ukzero1

Growing old disgracefully.
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 3, 2004
Messages
14,911
The only hooks I have/use are Kamasan B911's. I find them reliable and cover my fishing needs. I did look at the Maver Match This hooks in a size 16 but put them back on the shelf...for a 16 they're big.
 

Northantslad

'Any indications?
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
6,388
Fishing across many forms of angling, i stopped some time ago looking at the size on the packets, because, as you say, there is no standard. Not sure though that there needs to be across brands or types. Look at the hook, look at the pattern, look how big or small it is, if it looks suited to the intended bait and species then great.
 

Sam Vimes

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
5,525
There was a standard many years ago called the Redditch Scale. Unfortunately, not even all UK manufacturers followed it, let alone worldwide hook manufacturers. Even with that standard, longer shanks, curves and wider gapes made for inconsistencies. Provided you are aware that a size 10 hook of one type or brand is not likely to be exactly the same size as a size 10 in another, there isn't a big problem. The snag is that modern buying habits tend to involve a lot of distance purchases were the buyer doesn't get to see the product before buying.
 

squimp

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,436
I agree it is a joke. One make of size 12 is the same as ano 16. At lest you can see what you are buying.....

But it is worse with line, you ‘don’t even get what it says on the tin’. It says .12 mm on the spool and it is actually .13 or even .14.

But it isn’t just fishing- I take somewhere between a 32 and a 34” waist trouser -but each supplier is different.
 

Flathead

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
899
I have thousands of hooks of many different brands, mainly for flytying.

Not only do hooks sizes vary across manufacturers but also across different patterns from the same manufacturer.
Although, it is worth pointing out that there are a lot less actual “manufacturers” than you may think.

You really need to know what you are buying before you try anything new
 

RedRidingHood

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
601
Yea I asked a friend of mine to pick me up a packet of 16 wide gapes a few days ago and couldn't believe how big they were in comparison to other hooks in the same size, They were more like 12-14's. I'd originally thought they were put in the wrong packets by the manufacturer until I went to the tackle shop and had a look at this particular range myself. Heres a picture from a few random brands of 16's I'd picked out of my box. As you can see from the first few hooks they gradually get bigger until you reach a point where you'd never guess the last couple were 16's.

To me a perfect example of hook sizes are the Kamasan B911's. (First hook at the bottom of picture)

IMG_3813.JPG
 

johng19

me@home.com
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
5,676
Yea I asked a friend of mine to pick me up a packet of 16 wide gapes a few days ago and couldn't believe how big they were in comparison to other hooks in the same size, They were more like 12-14's. I'd originally thought they were put in the wrong packets by the manufacturer until I went to the tackle shop and had a look at this particular range myself. Heres a picture from a few random brands of 16's I'd picked out of my box. As you can see from the first few hooks they gradually get bigger until you reach a point where you'd never guess the last couple were 16's.

To me a perfect example of hook sizes are the Kamasan B911's. (First hook at the bottom of picture)
The eyes are similar
 

Arry

Aitch, Cantankerous old gimmer with "Views"
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
7,371
There used to be a standardised set of sizes years ago but the advent of different patterns and company's desires for "something different" driven by profits has seen that concept flushed... I really wish they would go back to a standardised size... pees me off when someone says "use a size 16" and its the same size as a bleedin 12
 

Northantslad

'Any indications?
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
6,388
There was a standard many years ago called the Redditch Scale. Unfortunately, not even all UK manufacturers followed it, let alone worldwide hook manufacturers. Even with that standard, longer shanks, curves and wider gapes made for inconsistencies. Provided you are aware that a size 10 hook of one type or brand is not likely to be exactly the same size as a size 10 in another, there isn't a big problem. The snag is that modern buying habits tend to involve a lot of distance purchases were the buyer doesn't get to see the product before buying.

More fool the buyer then. Each to their own of course, but buy something without seeing it? Not something I do or would ever do. Especially terminal tackle.
 

TrickyD

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
3,574
These are both size 16, the larger is a Korum xpert power, the smaller a B911
IMG_20190920_153957.jpg
 

Ken the Pacman

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
3,444
I have a Redditch standard hook gauge information sheet that I seem to remember came from Partridge somewhere but the original Mustad listing was almost if not identical, generally the first thing you notice is that the sizes are smaller than all of todays ranges.

Simple answer is to ignore the random number attached to a particular hook you want to use and judge it by comparing with one you normally use and getting one bigger or smaller to suit, ask in the tackle shop to look at a selection of MWG/LWG/911/ etc. to suit what you want it for. I gave up going on numbers in the mid 80s when Japanese hooks became more widely available because of the likes of Kamatsu, Tubertini, Fly etc. etc. all of which were bigger number for number but better hooks than we ever had before.
 

Simon R

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
May 19, 2002
Messages
12,399
That will be next, fisheries own hooks only
You're actually not so far from the truth
Back in the early days of commercial fisheries many had a maximum size hook - usually a 10 or a 12 - presumably to minimise damage to their fish.
As commercial fish got bigger, some anglers wanted to catch these larger fish by using larger baits, but since they were somewhat limited by the hook-sizes available this wasn't always possible - boilies being banned on many waters.
The hook manufacturers spotting a gap in the market introduced the 'wide gape' hook and hooks almost doubled in size overnight.

The fishery owners weren't happy but the angler could show the packet the hooks came out of and it complied with the fisheries maximum size so what could they do. I'm sure one fishery brought in a rule that the maximum gape could be no bigger than a size 12 Kamasan B520 (or a similar none wide gape pattern) although how successful that was - and how they managed to police it - I don't know.

For commercials I just use B611 / B911 the majority of the time and a couple of Guru patterns for the larger sizes
Natural water hooks will be B560 for the feeder, B611 barbed or B520 for the float.

Simon
 

Lee Richards

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
7,820
Always like reading threads like this and the way the (for a choice of a better phrase) "Little Englander" creeps in :)
When we were producing our own hooks in the UK and with the West Mids being at the forefront then the Redditch scale would have had relevance and been the benchmark.
Once hook manufacture became more global then it had only a loose relevance and the variation in sizes we see may be down to the customer demand in other countries - it doesn't all revolve around us.
 

PAB

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
1,150
Always like reading threads like this and the way the (for a choice of a better phrase) "Little Englander" creeps in :)
When we were producing our own hooks in the UK and with the West Mids being at the forefront then the Redditch scale would have had relevance and been the benchmark.
Once hook manufacture became more global then it had only a loose relevance and the variation in sizes we see may be down to the customer demand in other countries - it doesn't all revolve around us.
I don’t think anyone is being a little Englander as you put it anglers the world over just want to know that a item in one country marked as a certain size is the same everywhere a millimetre is the same the world over an inch is the same everywhere as is a week or a day all I am saying is lets have some conformity in the world market now with online shopping it is a nightmare if I order a 12 foot rod I expect it to be 12 foot not 13 food or 11 foot just because it is made in another part of the world.
 
Top