Sensible net limits?

Dave Spence

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One of my very first stories was "fishing in the 50's the 2050's"; I think I may have been right.
 

Sam Vimes

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If the Carp in commercials wern't so damaged, they could be sold on to the Carp lakes as good sized stockies. Unfortunately, the Carp boys want pretty fish, so thats not going to happen.

They also tend to want fish of a known, and relatively young age, plenty of growth potential and a bit of pedigree. The bigger fish from commies aren't a great proposition unless it's at a knockdown price. Many commies would be better served by creating their own speci lake and relocating the bigger fish to it. They'll still make decent money from a certain demographic of carper and some more general coarse anglers that fancy tangling with lumps.
 

Sam Vimes

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I can't afford many wild brownie waters. I've yet to work out why river trout fishing is so expensive just because you use a method that makes a very easy to catch fish harder to catch. Especially when coarse fishing the same venues in the winter is a fraction of the price.

You simply live in the wrong part of the country. There's loads of inexpensive club trout/mixed fishing on northern rivers. It's relatively unusual to have tiered pricing for fluff chuckers or coarse anglers. In certain spots, you'll even find free water with plenty of brownies.

I worked at the trout farm in Pickering for a while many years ago and they had a fishing lake where you could catch your own. Regularly stocked from the stock ponds and you could catch them on a cigarette butt :D

Quite ironic when you consider that venue is now a car park and probably covered in fag butts.
 

jim 1066

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if you expect large weights why not do as our club does and stop halfway and use a minimum of two nets max of 50lb with 10lb tolerance
 

robert d

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also can we stop all this bashing of different types of angling please, if you dont like a certain type of fishing then dont do it, but there is no need to knock people who do enjoy it or make derogatory remarks, not all carp anglers are camo wearing catch at all cost anglers, not all match anglers are selfish competitive anglers who take everything and the kitchen sink with them, not all commercial anglers enjoy catching 400lb+ of carp, not all pleasure anglers are mindless drunk yobbos who do not respect nature.........................theres good and bad in all types (ive not even mentioned fly or sea fishing!)

Note i have not referenced any people or posts in the above statement!

cant we all just go fishing and enjoy it???
Sounds good to me ,anything with fins and live in water .
 
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robert d

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I find you get quite a satisfying scrap off a 4-6oz fish on a proper silvers float rod like an acolyte, obviously not a fight in the true meaning of the word but enough to not literally be able to just wind them in like a 2oz blade or you'd bump a few off.

Is amazing how quickly you can get small commercial carp in on the right sort of gear though. When I fished for 2-4 pounders a couple weeks ago they were taking I guess up to nearly a minute on a cadence CR10 #1 so I switched to daiwa ninja and they came in not far off as easy as 4-6oz roach would on an acolyte. Was quite shocked by the difference it made and from that I could see how the massive weights can be achieved.
I have had lovely days catching gudgeon on light tackle ,I was after roach and perch but them little gudgeon cant half scrap for their size lol
 

robert d

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I've just read this and it makes sense to me....

Tunnel Barn Farm

KEEPNET NOTICE
We had an issue on Tuesday with some of the anglers being unable to get their nets out of the water. In normal circumstances we would always help with this, but due to Covid 19 / social distancing guidelines we can no longer do this. If you cannot get your net out of the water we will not be able to weigh you in.
Therefore for the time being we are changing our keepnet rules from Thursday 4th June.
The maximum you will be allowed in one net is now 50lb. We will allow a 10% tolerance on this. Please ensure that you sink enough nets. If it looks like you are going over in your nets and you don't have another, then contact the shop.
Thank you.




It is something I've come across several times when doing weigh-ins, especially when the angler is elderly or has physical issues preventing them from lifting their nets from the water.

50lb is still some weight to lift, especially as a deadlift with water to contend with - what do you feel is a fair weight and if you couldn't lift your own nets would it stop you match fishing?
The most sensible limit in these times is the amount you can lift out un aided .
 

Neil ofthe nene

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Fantastic venues but nothing like the amount of big matches there used to be,especially now the forty foot is off limits. I’d be all over them like a rash if they started having any amount of anglers turn up. Brilliant venues,all of them.

And if other anglers feel the same then numbers won't increase. Face plant moment?

With that attitude you are part of the problem, not the solution.
 

Neil ofthe nene

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Absolutely, a huge proportion of commercial game fisheries are just that and I choose to ignore them. I get little satisfaction from catching trout that have never seen a hook in their lives before. Other fly fishers do enjoy it and similarly survive as commercial coarse fisheries do.

How many trout that you catch have seen a hook before? Not being a game angler I am ignorant of the amount of catch and release that is practiced. I thought most game fishing involved taking the fish caught.
 

Silverfisher

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Most rainbow fishing is put and take but with an increasing amount of catch and release these days as not every one wants to eat them and frankly from a lot of waters they don’t taste very nice! With brownies it tends to be mostly catch and release though and I believe it’s the same for sea trout and salmon.
 

G0zzer2

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For those who don't know much about trout fishing, I will explain two things.

1) Thirty years ago (when I was assistant editor of Trout Fisherman) the start of the game fishing season in April meant that there were lots of male trout full of testosterone (or the fishy equivalent), and these would often chase almost anything that moved. Consequently huge catches were taken by anglers fishing big, flashy lures.

Now the rainbows stocked into commercial reservoirs are all (or virtually all) sterile. They don't behave in the same way, and are certainly harder to catch. It's a much more subtle sport now.

2) Catch-and-release was unheard of up to the 1980s, when Brian Morland, who ran Farmire, tried catch-and-release, and found that the idea that trout would die if handled was a complete myth. Up to then if a fish was caught it had to be killed - so they were never caught twice.

Most waters now allow catch-and-release, meaning that after having been caught and released, trout MAY become more cautious than they used to be. (I'm not a trout, so I don't profess to know for certain).
 

smiffy

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And if other anglers feel the same then numbers won't increase. Face plant moment?

With that attitude you are part of the problem, not the solution.
Do you want to remind me why silver fish commercials fail again? That’s the problem.

Its been tried. I‘ve driven the hour and half,spent 40quid on bait and another 15quid on pools to join the other dozen or so anglers that share my dream. There is no desire for people to return to those venues unless it’s part of a team event.

I don’t even mind that all matches have moved onto commercials, I’m going to be grateful for them one day,what I want to know is why we need to catch such massive weights. Big weight matches are the most unfair you can have.
 

Silverfisher

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That's a good point on the triploids Gozzer, bit obvious they'd be less aggressive when you think about it but must say it never occurred to me lol

Non carpy commercials are an interesting one. Personally I love them as variety is the spice of life and it means you can fish lighter but I guess that some people have the perception that it's just relatively small fish and small weights. Of course that is true if you target the smaller species but it's possible to do decent weights if you go for the bigger species. I guess they are probably more expensive to stock in numbers and not as hardy which might put some owners off but I wonder if some of the anglers that fish for commercial carp perceive the other species to be harder to catch than they are.

I recall a session on one commercial a few years ago (proper plasticky place that I don't often frequent tbf) where I had about dozen barbel, half a dozen bream, 3 tench, 3 carp, half a dozen perch and a couple dozen roach for about 70lb and it was certainly more interesting than 150 odd pound of mostly carp I had a couple weeks ago. It was one of those super uniformed lakes with every swim having its own island and tbh I didn't have a clue how to fish it so I'm sure if I managed to get a respectable catch that a proper matchman would do a ton with ease and how much more do you really need.
 

G0zzer2

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I have posted elsewhere that on Kingsland, near Peterborough, there was a lovely silver fish lake - crucians, bream, chub, roach, bream - everything, and not a single carp. It was very popular, until suddenly, almost overnight, the fish were no longer caught. They had died.

Carp are much more able to cope with reduced amount of oxygen (which happens more often now our summers are hotter for longer) so the owner had little option but to stock it with carp from his other lakes.

Also you may remember that Brian Talbot at Hallcroft was persuaded by Tom Pickering to turn Bridge Pool into a silvers-only water. After a few years Brian re-stocked it with carp because so few anglers wanted to fish there.

As for having to make big catches to win matches, I don't want to have to catch 200 lb of fish to win a match (actually I've only EVER fished about five matches where 200 lb has been exceeded). I'd much rather win with 50 lb BUT I can't stop the fish growing and mutiplying. I'd be happy to fish three-hour matches, but I have to accept the match scene as it is, and not as I might wish it to be. That's the challenge for me.
 

NoCarpPlease

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from my username ... I am no fan of carp for match fishing - it's one of the reasons that has killed the large open match circuit that i grew up with.

But in the end it is a comparative test of skill (and luck) whatever the weights.

The reason the match anglers catch so much is that they are MUCH more skilled than the average punter at catching lots - the stocking levels are mostly designed to give those average punters a decent days fishing - so not really the fault of the match anglers.

We have a choice - there are still matches on "natural" fisheries that you can choose to fish. My top match weight on such a water is still about 50 pounds - and I have won a fair few opens over the years.
As Neil of the Nene points out - there are very few who choose to avoid the carp-dominated venues.

Couple of points on keepnets
1. large muscular fish will suffer a lot less damage than smaller, delicate ones. So mixing carp and roach is not a great idea, for example
2. in my experience, as a muscular fish, barbel do not suffer in keepnets (other than larger mesh - getting the dorsal spine caught). The problem is generally with people who play them too gently and let them wear temselves out. In fact - holding them in a keepnet in flowing water can be an excellent way to help recovery.
I must say that I'm really disappointed by the absence of the Barbel police ..... or have they changed their mind? :rolleyes:
 

mike fox

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How many trout that you catch have seen a hook before? Not being a game angler I am ignorant of the amount of catch and release that is practiced. I thought most game fishing involved taking the fish caught.
As GOzzer2 says about 40 odd years ago all game fishing was catch and kill, even in rivers with both Salmon and Trout. You could almost draw a circle on the map around the commercial trout fisheries down south that are now put and take (catch & kill) only fisheries, with a few exceptions on the perimeter. This is purely a business strategy to make the fish easier to catch for the big money customers. £70 upwards to catch 4 fish is something that I don't want to do that often.
Most of the fish I catch have been caught before, even the wild river brownies have most probably been caught before with all club waters and day ticket waters being catch and release with the few that offer the option to keep a brace a day over a certain size. When a fishery has just been stocked then catches obviously are higher but this does not last long because as always the fish become line shy just the same as coarse fish do.
Most Salmon rivers in the UK now are catch and release with a few exceptions but obviously those fish wouldn't have been caught before but even they are getting more difficult to catch because of the scarcity now a days. Lets not forget about the humble Grayling. Most Trout rivers have these stunning species in residence and give us fantastic sport allowing fly fishers to fish rivers 12 months of the year after the Trout season ends in October and most of these would have been caught before. During the HANAK festival weekend on the Welsh Dee, over 1000 Grayling are caught and released.
 

G0zzer2

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Interesting comment by NoCarpPlease regarding barbel.
Most anglers will know that brown trout from wild, natural waters are beautifully coloured - brown with gold and red. I have been assured by more than one expert that this is down to the stress levels on those rivers, where food is comparatively scarce. But catch a big brownie on Rutland and they are silver with blackish spots - nothing like as attractive (though they grow much bigger). I am assured this is because food is more plentiful on alkaline inland stillwaters.

Now although I haven't been told this by anyone with expert knowledge, I can't help noticing that the same thing applies to barbel. The last time I caught barbel from the Severn (and I caught a lot) they were brown. But catch a barbel from Decoy or other local commercials and they are silver, as the photographs on my blog consistently show.

My conclusion is that provided oxygen levels are sufficient, barbel on commercial stillwaters are probably less stressed than in natural, acidic rivers like the Severn. Does anyone have expert knowledge on this?
 

Silverfisher

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Wild brownie rivers can be very abundant with food or very short it of it dependant on their geography. Mountain streams tend to be pretty short of food hence the relatively small fish whereas chalkstreams are packed with food hence why the fish grow a lot bigger.
 

Anglingman

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i'm struggling to see the difference where 45lb of silvers is considered fantastic but 450lb of cap is not ?
Fish for fish its probably the same number of fish. It would take a lot more physical effort to record 450lb of carp......

Personally as a match angler I target and plan what species/weight is required to win whether that be silvers or carp.
If competing as an individual I can choose what type of matches to fish, as a team angler you just get on with it and do
whats necessary. Winning against my fellow competitiors and not the biggest weight recorded is my aim and motivation
 

Dave

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The colour difference is more likely attributed to their surroundings than stress levels.
Yorkshire waters for instance tend to be peat coloured at the best of times, the Barbel tend to live in the gravell areas rather than the silted up dark muddy areas.

Compare that to most commercials which are built in clay or lined with clay, and therein is the difference.

Commercial s tend to stock Barbel as early warning indicators of low oxygen levels as they are generally the first fish to show signs of distress.
 
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