Sad day for me

Northantslad

'Any indications?
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
6,388
Right, so I would like to think that most realise I am unbiased or at least rarely let my bias influence how I see things.

I value England first, country over club, which sometimes places me in a minority these days. For those that differ and/or make that choice because their love of their club is simply stronger, to those that have seen their love of England dwindle, please hear me out and explain my feelings to me, because after Rooney's news yesterday, my love for my country team has taken a massive hit and my feelings concern me, this isn't down to a Man Utd thing, it can't be he's at Everton and fair play to him.

I have watched and backed England with loads of enthusiasm with or without Rooney and well before Rooney's time too, from my first England memories of the world cup 82 England song I bought, to crying my eyes out when Maradonna done us up like kippers and the highs of Italia 90 and Euro 96, the expectation of the 'golden' generation through to the modern low expectations being a safe way to prepare myself.

I think the way Rooney has been treated is appalling at times, including the lack of send off (Utd too there), dropping him from the previous squad, don't think for one minute that the top countries always pick on form and certainly don't drop their captain like a stone. Yes I have in my mind that footage of him giving his opinion of the fans booing that time, difficult to justify granted, but be assured that he is one of the last heart on sleeve types.

Whether it has been the ridiculous playing him out of position fiasco, to the quiet and professional way the Everton move occurred, he has always gone about it the right way and got on with it.

The debate programme last night was interesting, where Craig Bellamy commented on Rooney's Monday night post match interview, his feeling that something was coming along these lines. However, I also saw the interview and my take on it was that Wayne in saying 'will have a chat with Gareth in the week' possibly meant that he wanted to see in what capacity his services would be needed. Add to that the statement that said Gareth wanted Wayne 'involved', tells me that possibly he just wanted him around the camp, a role that given his England record and commitment, would be insulting.

That last bit is of course my take on it, but that aside, you cannot deny that England has lost another true 'football first' type of player, his move to Everton and his impact at Everton proves he isn't past it, his record for England speaks for itself and although his performances haven't always lived up to the expectation level, I cannot recall many top players in the last 10 years who have? He certainly wouldn't be the type to continually duck out of squads with 'injury'.

The anomaly that the full squad now are, in comparison with the youth squads and ladies (all doing well) I could just about handle, because 'its England and they are my country'. However, as I say, I have no bias, so why has his decision (that I feel has been forced) left me feeling so flat now?
 

160642fishing

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
4,977
It's always sad to see a great player leave the international stage but at least he's gone with some dignity,as you say to have him in the squad just to be 'around' would be an insult but we have to take on board that they are two friendly matches coming up and results aren't that important but blooding younger players for the future might be,he had a good second half tonight,I didn't see the first half and I hope he has a good few seasons with Everton before he calls it a day
 

BrianEmb

Regular member
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
2,653
I agree that he has served England well. Never shirked responsibility and always gave every ounce of effort backed up by considerable skills.
I would take issue with him over retiring from international football as I did with Scholes and Carragher. My view is that the highest honour you can have is to be asked to represent your country. Nobody is guaranteed to get that honour and having been given the honour nobody is entitled to think that they are entitled to it every game. If you are selected you turn up and if you play you give your all and if you don't play you become the best supporter the team could ever want.
He may well think that what is the point in turning up if he's not going to play but he can be a mentor to the younger players and ultimately gain experience so that one day he himself might be called on to manage England.
 

Northantslad

'Any indications?
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
6,388
Thanks both some good points, feeling a little better for reading them. Scholes, agree, didn't play enough/wasn't selected enough certainly had the form to be picked though may be just not the will. Carragher's issue I understand was travelling around the world to warm the bench and rarely get a look in, both examples are of players not appearing to want to fight for a place and I fully agree with you Brian, yes you should do whatever it takes and try and seize every opportunity, it should an honour, 100% with you there. I have the same issue with every similar England retirement there has been, with the exception of probably Shearer, who gave it his all.

However I cannot compare Rooney's retirement to Scholes and co. Rooney has seized the opportunities, still had a desire to play I reckon, demonstrated what it should mean to wear the shirt, been captaining the team, most outfield caps, highest scorer and now bowed out gracefully/been made to bow out gracefully. Not as if he tried it for a while then quit, he has played a good number of years, but in agreement with Sven I feel he has something to offer on the pitch still. I don't think for one moment that he has chosen this purely to prolong his dream move back to Everton, I reckon the last omission from the squad had an impact.

If this latest generation are the future and better in the last third and coming back to scrap at times or Rooney's re-inclusion was just a polite gesture, then at the very least he should have been persuaded to get a Wembley game to get the send off. Credit to him again, the type of guy he clearly is, he is happy to just get on with football and disregard the applause he deserves. I would have expected a Podolski type send off that he got for Germany, come off on 80 mins, a chance to say 'yep, been ups and downs Wayne and you always haven't been our flavour of the month, but you know what you deserve a round of applause from us 80,000 people'. If the FA/England/Southgate just let it drift away then I feel it is poor.
 

Northantslad

'Any indications?
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
6,388
Sad day in terms of when England/Southgate just let a player with Rooney's mindset walk away, and too early imo. It doesn't seem, will never know until the books come out I suppose, that England have tried too hard to make him re-consider things and may have got what they wanted.

He could have done the China/America thing, but he didn't. Defoe went to America and subsequently into the England wilderness for a couple of years, then is picked and Rooney not for the previous England squad.

Known fact that an injury for some players isn't an injury to others, there are players currently favoured who in recent squads have been injured for more squads than they have been fit, yet still fully in the picture.

Everyone felt that to be considered for England, Wayne needed to leave Utd and get regular football- he's done that.

He needed to make a good start to this season-he's done that and it may be fair to say that he is up there at the moment with the form players.

In his Monday night interview Wayne suggested and this was a clue that the criticism has grated him, 'yea not bad for someone who is unfit I suppose' -or certainly words to that effect I think it was.

Not a god given right to have a place fully agree, but in terms of his record, past and through to right now at this moment he would be closest to having a given right to not be 'involved in the squad', but in that starting 11 and as captain.

Can't help feeling that Gareth talking about a 'legend' and the door is always open still, is just the obituary and saying the right things. Gareth also said when asked about Rooney's decision 'you will have to ask him about that', but almost in a contradiction said ' he fully understood the reasons why'.

Sad day and a dangerous one when that type of mindset isn't involved with England anymore.
 

davylad

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Messages
6,009
I don't want to change your post NL, but while we're on about the England set up, I was thinking about players such as Livermore and McGuire, how come they and I'm sure probably a few others don't get called up until they're with more fashionable clubs? If you think Leicester and West Brom are in that vein of course.
 

Wise Owl

Regular member
Account Locked
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
39,733
If he still played for the Scum he would still be in the England Squad [}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]
 

DFL

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
2,640
You write with a strong passion for the game and Rooney, shame many of today's players in the top flight don't share that passion, call me cynical but I very much doubt Rooney or any other over paid player feels "sad" for too long.
 

jods

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
1,553
I think the decision is more to do with wanting to break Shearers Premier league record. Southgate made it pretty clear he would hardly play, might as well go on holiday with his family. I can't fault him.
 

Northantslad

'Any indications?
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
6,388
Yep there is always that fashionable club thing with England, not right either Davy is it. We would do well to look at the passion and pride some of the Wales squad demonstrated or what you see with Scotland and the other british nations, republic too.

I am passionate DFL yes and about Rooney and others of the same mindset (Terry) that have been constructively ousted. I cannot put Rooney in the same category as other high earning players.

I can't fault Rooney either jods, although and also considering DFL thoughts, I don't think he would easily drop England to pursue records. Yep whilst the wages must be a nice sweetener, there are some and I for one include Rooney in this, that any amount of money is low on the motivation list, below being a footballer first, pride and wanting to benefit any team he has played for.



In ten years he won't sit back and use his bank balance as a gauge for his career, he will reflect on what he has achieved in football and how he has performed against the sort of criteria that is lacking in many others.

There is value in terms of monetary value, that is what we just see sometimes and there is being valued-any person on any wage needs a feeling of being valued, regardless of what any human being earns and especially if like Wayne they value as an individual,how hard they work, then when being undervalued it hurts and usually ends in that person walking away to leave others to it.

I need some England success to get me back up and this along with time may heal me. If England do something of note now that they 'don't have to try and fit in Rooney' or 'unbalance the side by accommodating Rooney', then great, but at the moment and this is where I worry myself, i wouldn't get any lower if this team of 'bright young stars' and Gareth fall flat on their a***.
 

Phoenixicus

Regular member
Account Locked
Joined
May 21, 2017
Messages
10,087
Great posts NL and I agree 100% with all you have said.

IMO I think Rooney has done the right thing as he was on a hiding to nothing.
He has already took all the stick for the whole team failing over the years so why put himself further through it when his form and fitness were not once what they were.

As someone said before SAF,6 England managers and ex-world class players such as Lineker,Shearer,Henry have all said they think he has been one of the best.
Not a United fan but those who are will tell you his game suffered when Ronaldo joined as he had to play in a different position and to a different style.
Yet he just got on with it.

No doubt there will be those that will trot out the "he was not as good as" mantra, but world football is a different animal to that of 30/40 years ago.More countries play to a higher standard with technically better,fitter players.
The emergence of Africans and South Americans playing in the top European leagues is testament to that.

People never consider the impact of failure has on a footballers family and Rooneys kids are now reaching the age where they will be more aware of every time he is criticised.
His wife gets slatted for taking holidays but so what,is she expected to lock herself away and not spend the riches he as earnt?
They are living their life and the family all seem happy - wish them well for it.
And yet there are still the saddos that trot out his misdemeanours from when he was a young lad - pure jealousy as he has done something in his life they never will.

As for players not at the top clubs not being given a chance I think a lot of that is down to the way that club football is structured.
Been to a lot of games in my past and it's frightening at times to see the actual pace the game is played at- tv does not do it justice.
Top clubs with usually technically better players are more used to playing at the higher tempo and have more exposure to playing against quality opposition.
This is why they are picked

Similar example of this is going on with the cricket where all 3 of the new boys are struggling to step up from county cricket to the additional pace of Test match bowlers.
 
Last edited:

Sam Vimes

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
5,521
Has the real reason for Rooney's international retirement just become public knowledge?
 

Sam Vimes

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
5,521
Originally posted by Northantslad

What's that Sam?

The drink driving thing. However, it became apparent after I posted that the incident followed the announcement of his international retirement.
 

DFL

Regular member
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
2,640
Good job he retired just in time and has saved Southgate and the FA some embarrassing awkwardness.
 
Top