Rugby Union, Forward Pass Farce

[Lee Richards]

I thought the Italians played very well and for a few errors it could have been very different.

As for the forward passes the reactions of the players and fans are usually the give away.
Yesterday that wasn't the case.

 

[TonyA]

But re your actual question, the ball can actually travel forwards without being deemed a forward pass. This is because there is a allowance for forward momentum when the ball is released - it’s all about how the ball comes out of the hand. Didn’t watch the Scotland game so can’t say whether or not they were actual forward passes.

Been saying for ages, its irrelevant invoking laws of physics: if momentum takes it forwards, it is forward. Refs are not qualified to calculate forward moment.

 

[TonyA]

Head on head with no mitigation. Definite red card. I’m sure Ewels didn’t mean jt - poor technique. Rule has been bought in to reduce head injuries. Ruined this game though of course, been looking forward to it all week

Player safety is important but, if you are tall, try getting low enough to tackle a ball carrier next to you.

 

[OldTaff]

Player safety is important but, if you are tall, try getting low enough to tackle a ball carrier next to you.

It is all about tackling technique and even at school and club level it is being drummed into players never mind international players - whilst it’s entirely possible for the ball carrier to drop in the tackle causing a clash of heads, going in upright drastically increases the likelihood and avoiding head trauma is paramount.

Tall or not you’ve got to get your shoulder and arms down in the tackle and wrap the ball carrier.

 

[Zerkalo]

I played Rugby at school. Not seen any of the games in question but I was a right winger, hardly ever got the ball as it seemed our team could only pass to the left. So the most action I got was when I was in defence behind a load of forwards. Not good as I was a slim but quick player.

 

[Reuben]

It is all about tackling technique and even at school and club level it is being drummed into players never mind international players - whilst it’s entirely possible for the ball carrier to drop in the tackle causing a clash of heads, going in upright drastically increases the likelihood and avoiding head trauma is paramount.

Tall or not you’ve got to get your shoulder and arms down in the tackle and wrap the ball carrier.

The trouble with tackling in the game now is that it’s all about ‘winning the collision’. Everyone is obsessed with driving the man backwards at every opportunity & that usually means going in well above the waist irrespective of the size of either player. That’s the influence that’s come from Rugby League imo. Personally, I think scrum caps should be mandatory at every level of the game. Wouldn’t have mattered in yesterday’s collision - whilst totally accidental it was very poor technique from a professional player & lost England the game & the chance of the Championship.

 

[davylad]

I thought the Italians played very well and for a few errors it could have been very different.

As for the forward passes the reactions of the players and fans are usually the give away.
Yesterday that wasn't the case.

Have a look at two of the Italian players Lee, for one of the tries.

 

[Dave]

I played Rugby at school. Not seen any of the games in question but I was a right winger, hardly ever got the ball as it seemed our team could only pass to the left. So the most action I got was when I was in defence behind a load of forwards. Not good as I was a slim but quick player.

I played hooker and somehow never lost the role

 

[BBear]

I played hooker and somehow never lost the role

Yes I was always picked as hooker when I started playing at school, because I was quite short but ‘chunky’. Hated it but fortunately had a growing spurt and ended up in the backs, usually centre. Really enjoyed playing after that.

 

[Geoff P]

A video worth watching, it is 11 years old but explains why people are confused over whether a pass is forward or not.

 

[Reuben]

Good video, Geoff.

 

[BBear]

Player safety is important but, if you are tall, try getting low enough to tackle a ball carrier next to you.

Ewels went in with a wrap around tackle, always risky now with the new rules. Agree that player safety is important I just don’t think they’ve got the punishment side of it quite right. That said, Ryan did end up missing the game with the head injury.

 

[TonyA]

I played Rugby at school. Not seen any of the games in question but I was a right winger, hardly ever got the ball as it seemed our team could only pass to the left. So the most action I got was when I was in defence behind a load of forwards. Not good as I was a slim but quick player.

Most club players find it easier to pass to the left (not if your left handed)

 

[TonyA]

It is all about tackling technique and even at school and club level it is being drummed into players never mind international players - whilst it’s entirely possible for the ball carrier to drop in the tackle causing a clash of heads, going in upright drastically increases the likelihood and avoiding head trauma is paramount.

Tall or not you’ve got to get your shoulder and arms down in the tackle and wrap the ball carrier.

Many players (inc. Internationals) don't know the laws - I got refs in to go over new laws, not many attendees - the ref will tell me in the game

 

[TonyA]

Ewels went in with a wrap around tackle, always risky now with the new rules. Agree that player safety is important I just don’t think they’ve got the punishment side of it quite right. That said, Ryan did end up missing the game with the head injury.

Maybe a 15/20 min orange card?

 

[TonyA]

The trouble with tackling in the game now is that it’s all about ‘winning the collision’. Everyone is obsessed with driving the man backwards at every opportunity & that usually means going in well above the waist irrespective of the size of either player. That’s the influence that’s come from Rugby League imo. Personally, I think scrum caps should be mandatory at every level of the game. Wouldn’t have mattered in yesterday’s collision - whilst totally accidental it was very poor technique from a professional player & lost England the game & the chance of the Championship.

Too many players try to rip the ball and miss the tackle.

 

[TonyA]

Its the inconsistency that annoys me, none of Vincent-Parks quick taps went through the mark but he'd be pulled back with another ref.

 

[Neil ofthe nene]

I think you’re a bit behind the times, Neil. I watched the game & didn’t notice any obvious forward passes except those penalised by match officials but there are always one or two that escape unnoticed. The ref can’t go upstairs after every sequence unless a forward pass is suspected as it would just be a stop start game. Flat passes can look forward on TV given the pace of play & the video ref gets involved if he feels he needs to.
The rules about the scrum are being changed all the time in the interest of safety & to stop so many resets. These days the hooker isn’t worthy of the name as he doesn’t actually hook the ball at all as the ball is fed to your own front row. Given the new rules on front row feet placement I doubt it’s physically possible to actually hook the ball anymore! So it’s playing within & to the limit of the rules rather than cheating - like the offside rule & line outs. It’s up to the referee to decide where to draw the line & as long as he’s consistent teams appear to be OK with it. The Italians didn’t make a fuss over how the game was played, they just got on with it - best I’ve seen them play this 6 Nations.

Both instances I cited lead directly to tries thus the game was stopped. I think for the first, Scotland's second try, the TMO looked at something anyway. I have rewound and stopped both release and receive points for both. In the first, judged against the Guinness advert on the pitch the pass was received approximately 5 metres forward of where it was released. For the second the pass was released two or three metres shy of the Italian 22 metre line and caught two or three beyond it. Not only did they look forward they obviously were.

Often we see the TMO call the ref's attention to an incident that should be looked at, why should the play leading directly to a try be any different? To me a pass that is received five metres forward of the release point should be looked at. I doubt anyone could claim that such forward impetus is caused by the momentum of the passer's forward speed. Those two tries could have changed the outcome of the game.

It just looks wrong (IMHO).

Scrums, should the rules have been changed to fit in with what scrum halves were getting away with?

 

[davylad]

Is the ref allowed to go upstairs for a forward pass, I know in League they're not?