Rod building query

PoddyPaul

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Jun 9, 2020
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I'm looking for some advice before I make a big decision folks.

Recently I have just fitted a fuji screw down reel seat to an old Shakespeare Sigma Supra 13 foot match rod. I did this as a bit of a trial since this was on a rod I built from a blank years ago where the blank came ready corked and all I needed to do was to whip the eyes. I don't use this rod very often so was ok taking the risks.

I am now going to do the same to one of my Team Normark Avenger 13 foot match rods.

What I am looking for guidance on is that when I removed the cork section on the Sigma rod I found that the rod has an insert carbon section for the handle. I was not expecting this as I was expecting the butt section to be a complete section right through to the butt cap. I brought the blank brand new from "Jacksons of Tipton", a proper old tackle shop, so I am sure it was not tampered with.

All worked out ok but I was not able to effectively shorten the handle length by placing the fuji reel seat lower down the cork because the join would have looked a mess. The handle is quite long on this rod.

I am hoping that when I carry out the same work on the Normark that I will find the butt section carbon is the same section right through, then I can set the reel seat and cork hood approx 4 inch lower thus reducing the cork length overall.

Any comments much appreciated.

Also - I'm still on the look out for an Avenger 2000...............

Best regards
Paul.
 

TimFB

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Jul 24, 2020
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Quite often tips/blanks are spliced into parallel butt sections that are often stiffer material to provide a bit more oomph. It’s not necessarily a problem, but cosmetically it is best to cover them with something as you suggest. I have built beachcasters and heavy boat fishing rods with the tips spliced into alloy butts at the extreme end of things...
 

PoddyPaul

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Jun 9, 2020
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thanks for your reply.
When I looked at the you tube videos on fitting a fuji reel seat they all advocated removing the butt section eyes and fitting the real seat from the top of the butt by sliding down because of the difficulty of fitting from the butt upwards due to the taper in the handle requiring lots of finishing to the cork because of the taper, which is why I was surprised to find the parallel section handle.

Regards
Paul.
 

adriang

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i'm doing the same with a number of rods, and uncovered the same thing with a Shakespeare Mach 2 Boron, which has a long handle and I think the handle section is fibre glass. The way I'm approaching it is to move the new fitting down about 10 cm, and then putting whipping on to the 'recessed' piece, and then a hook keeper. Once a few coats of epoxy have been put on, it doesn't stand out so badly. (I'm using the Seymo epoxy, but a high build would be better). I've done one, and did lop a bit off the handle (total rebuild as it was a mess). The other one I'm about to start, I'm not shortening the handle, but will move the reel fitting down a little. (I've been hoping Guides and Blanks have a black friday sale before I buy more of the fittings, I want to do 4 or 5 rods).
 

floatfisher

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The Mach 2 handle section probably is solid fibreglass. You should be able to tell by the weight of the butt section. The original Shakespeare President had what appeared to me to be a solid glassfibre parrallel section under the handle which was quite long by todays standards. DAM did the same on one of their top price rods a bit later on when several firms were selling £300 'top of the range' float rods. I think it was just a cheap way to balance the rod personally.
 

nejohn

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There are many rods that have a parallel section of a slightly different material under the handle, unfortunately unless you have prior knowledge of what lies under the corks the only way to find out is to remove the corks. If you find the rod has a parallel section then there will be no need to remove rings from the butt section to fit a different reel seat but the only realistic way of shortening the handle on a rod like this is to remove a couple of inches from the butt end leaving you with a shorter but section. However if when you remove the corks you find the handle is just a continuation of the blank then you will really need to remove rings from the butt section so you can make sure the new handle fits the taper correctly, but on the plus side you can then tailor the handle length to suit your needs without butchering the blank.
 

TimFB

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There are many rods that have a parallel section of a slightly different material under the handle, unfortunately unless you have prior knowledge of what lies under the corks the only way to find out is to remove the corks. If you find the rod has a parallel section then there will be no need to remove rings from the butt section to fit a different reel seat but the only realistic way of shortening the handle on a rod like this is to remove a couple of inches from the butt end leaving you with a shorter but section. However if when you remove the corks you find the handle is just a continuation of the blank then you will really need to remove rings from the butt section so you can make sure the new handle fits the taper correctly, but on the plus side you can then tailor the handle length to suit your needs without butchering the blank.
Yup...wot nejohn said...
 

PoddyPaul

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So still a burning question does anyone know the rods that have a total full length section hiding under the cork before we start removing the cork.
It seems the president and boron Mach 2 rods have insert butt sections.
The other of interest to me is the team Normark avenger. I have a few of these at 13 foot to consider changing the reel fitting to Fuji screw type but probably won't do this unless I know the section runs right through. Might have a go with an old president 12 foot and cut the butt off if I have to. I quite fancy having a shorter light rod for small rivers like the stour without having to buy a Normark microlight.
 

nejohn

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One option would be to cut the bottom 2-3 inches of cork from the normark to see if it has a parallel section under the cork, then if you find you don't want to go any further buy a short length of duplon and butt cap from guides and blanks and glue it into place, they do various lengths and diameters and if you buy it with a bore slightly smaller than needed it will stretch over and make a snug fit even on a tapered blank
 

NoCarpPlease

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I’m puzzled as to why you would bother with trying to shorten the handle from the tip end?
much, much less risk to chop off the excess from the butt end.
the effective length in front of the reel is then unchanged.
i’ve done this with a few rods over the years and they’ve all balanced fine afterwards.

has the avenger got a spigot joint? I did a similar “short rod for brooks” project earlier this year on an old tricast rod.
the aim was to turn a 13 ft rod in to a near 11ft rod.
i did this by chopping c. six inches from the butt handle and c. 15 inches from the top of the butt section, then refitting the old spigot (glue and overwhip - didn’t bother with a carbon wrap).
Butt section is so close to parallel that this wasn’t a tricky job.
it works fine, but the rod is noticeably fiercer.
 

PoddyPaul

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Jun 9, 2020
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Thanks for everyone’s replies. I will check a few rods from the butt end to see. Can probably check parallel without removing cork sections. For the team avenger though I definitely do not want to shorten the whole rod and will only shorten the cork at the top if I can. If I ever need to sell these then the full as manufactured length is still original.
Regards
Paul
 

KL-7

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Oct 23, 2018
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Normark Titan 2000's have a section of hollow parallel fibre glass tube spliced in under the real seat, you can tell when a rod has a fibre glass handle platform by carefull bending as the glass is softer than the carbon.
 

R0B

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If the aim is to shorten the effective handle length but not the rod, and there is a joint, can you not position the reel seat where you want it, and fit a cork foregrip in front long enough to cover any join? Or if using a screw-down where the foregrip IS the screw down, a longer one or if that won't cover it then a section of whipping to cover the join?
 

PoddyPaul

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Jun 9, 2020
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I've ordered a screw up fuji and a 5 inch cork plus and cork "bulb" and will try what Rob has suggested.
Just seems odd that a lot of rods seem to have an insert in the butt section.
Pretty much all of the youtube videos on reel seat fitting suggest removing the butt eye(s) because of the difficulty in working from a tapered end with new cork, which suggests a non parallel butt under the cork.

I've also another problem on my Normark Titan 2000 13 foot - one of the single leg eyes has bust .....!.
I'll post a photo if this helps.
One up from the joint on the tip section. Not sure of what make / series of eyes they are. Will be phoning guides n blanks tomorrow to see if they will let me take the section in to them to see if they can identify the new eye needed.

Thanks for all the replies folks.
 

ravey

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I think the single leg ring from your 2000 range Normark is a Fuji job, titanium SiC.
 

PoddyPaul

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Jun 9, 2020
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Hi,
You can just see the crack in the ring leg by the whipping in the first picture.
This is the largest ring on the tip section on the Titan 2000 13 foot.
The legs are silver colour.
The ring in the second photo is the replacement I have from guides and blanks.
The legs are black colour, however the size is pretty much the same. There is no I.D. on the invoice as it was a sale at the door. Just the lettering on the bag and the size reference - 5.
I have not whipped the replacement ring just yet just in case I come across the same in silver.

Best Regards,
Paul.
 

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nick2b

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Hi,
You can just see the crack in the ring leg by the whipping in the first picture.
This is the largest ring on the tip section on the Titan 2000 13 foot.
The legs are silver colour.
The ring in the second photo is the replacement I have from guides and blanks.
The legs are black colour, however the size is pretty much the same. There is no I.D. on the invoice as it was a sale at the door. Just the lettering on the bag and the size reference - 5.
I have not whipped the replacement ring just yet just in case I come across the same in silver.

Best Regards,
Paul.

I have a set of rings that I took off an original Titan 2000 and replaced them. I've probably got one if you want it?
 

PoddyPaul

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Jun 9, 2020
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Sounds good to me as I would like to keep the rod as original as possible.
Do you want me to send you the broken one to check the size ?. Its the first ( largest ) ring on the tip section.
I'm Midlands based ( Stourbridge ). Let me know what I need to do.

Many thanks,
Paul.
 
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