Quiver rod definition

[Browner]

I’ve seen a new trend with the way quiver rods are being defined.
For example the New Korum Allrounder feeder rods are described as 10ft 1.1lb or 11ft 1.25lb rods with 1, 2, and 3oz tips. In the past, twin tip rods have had this description as it defines the Avon top section, but I believe the Korum rod is just a single top quiver rod. So what does the 1.1lb refer to.

 

[Ken the Pacman]

Approximate test curve of the rod including the quiver.

 

[Browner]

Approximate test curve of the rod including the quiver.

Yea, I thought that but I doesn’t seem right when you describe a feeder rod. Surely the quiver tip is going to react differently and quicker compared to the carrier section, especially if the tip is glass and the carrier section is carbon.

 

[Ken the Pacman]

They are more of a "specialist" type rod and are a fair bit stiffer than your average feeder rod.

 

[richox12]

Approximate test curve of the rod including the quiver.

Can't be.

A test curve is the force needed to pull the tip through 90 degrees. So the TC of a feeder rod is whichever tip is fitted. Fit a 1/2 quiver tip into a previously 3lb TC carp rod and it's new TC is 1/2oz because that is all that is needed to bend the tip to 90 degrees. Technically correct. But..... ............Test curves don't really tell you what power is in a rod. So maybe the Power (however that is measured) is 1.1lb etc but the test curve is still whatever the tip is which is fitted.

 

[Ken the Pacman]

To pull the whole rod not just the tip 90 degrees is the correct way to measure a test curve so the quiver tip becomes irrelevant in this case as you will be bending the carrier section

 

[RMNDIL]

WHOLE rod ?????

Blimey.

So pull on the tip and keep pulling and keep pulling and keep pulling until the whole blank is totally bottomed out and you cannot compress it any more what-so-ever ???

Don't think so. We wouldn't have 1lb TC, 1 1/4lb TC, 1 1/2lb TC etc rods at all. Can you imagine how soft a rod would be if it only took 1lb to bottom it ????

 

[Browner]

They are more of a "specialist" type rod and are a fair bit stiffer than your average feeder rod.

Ok. But the name “allrounder“ suggests it’s a more general purpose “medium feeder“ type of rod to me.
Do you know how it compares to the Drennan Vertex 11ft Medium feeder?

 

[Neil ofthe nene]

Or, you can stop stressing about details, use a rod, watch the tip and strike when it goes round.

Manufacturers and sellers of all types of products use fancy "technical" jargon to fool us into buying stuff. Women's cosmetics are probably the worst, they invent some additive, give it an impressive "scientific" sounding name and it becomes the must have. But I bet no one actually knows what the stuff is and what it is supposed to do.

As we used to say at work "Bullsh!t baffles brains".

 

[Sam Vimes]

Ok. But the name “allrounder“ suggests it’s a more general purpose “medium feeder“ type of rod to me.

It's worth bearing the branding it wears in mind. There are three brands under the Preston Innovations umbrella.
Preston Innovations - Match/General coarse fishing gear.
Korum - Specialist Fishing gear.
Avid - Carp fishing gear.

There's little doubt that there can be some cross over between the brands. However, the fact that the allrounder bears the Korum brand, rather than PI, may tell a story. It may also provide an answer as to why they've given it a test curve rating. It's commonplace on carp and specialist rods and not on match/general coarse rods.

 

[Ken the Pacman]

Ok. But the name “allrounder“ suggests it’s a more general purpose “medium feeder“ type of rod to me.
Do you know how it compares to the Drennan Vertex 11ft Medium feeder?

The Korum rod is more powerful than a typical commercial feeder rod like the vertex and has a higher casting weight.

 

[Browner]

It's worth bearing the branding it wears in mind. There are three brands under the Preston Innovations umbrella.
Preston Innovations - Match/General coarse fishing gear.
Korum - Specialist Fishing gear.
Avid - Carp fishing gear.

There's little doubt that there can be some cross over between the brands. However, the fact that the allrounder bears the Korum brand, rather than PI, may tell a story. It may also provide an answer as to why they've given it a test curve rating. It's commonplace on carp and specialist rods and not on match/general coarse rods.

Yes, fully aware of that bit I’ve also seen it on some Advanta feeder rods too. It just seems an odd way of defining what the rod is capable of compared to a casting weight or a max line rating.

 

[Browner]

The Korum rod is more powerful than a typical commercial feeder rod like the vertex and has a higher casting weight.

Ok, cool. Thanks for the info.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Yes, fully aware of that bit I’ve also seen it on some Advanta feeder rods too. It just seems an odd way of defining what the rod is capable of compared to a casting weight or a max line rating.

For general coarse anglers, it certainly is an odd way of doing things. For carp and specialist anglers, they expect to see a test curve rating, they've been using them for many decades. The fact that they tell you very little about the action of a rod doesn't seem to matter. However, if you do see a test curve rating, it's fairly safe to assume that a rod is aimed at the carp/specialist market.

 

[Ken the Pacman]

WHOLE rod ?????

Blimey.

So pull on the tip and keep pulling and keep pulling and keep pulling until the whole blank is totally bottomed out and you cannot compress it any more what-so-ever ???

Don't think so. We wouldn't have 1lb TC, 1 1/4lb TC, 1 1/2lb TC etc rods at all. Can you imagine how soft a rod would be if it only took 1lb to bottom it ????

The test curve of a rod is the amount of force used to pull a set up rod with line to 90 degrees .....agreed this is the standard method.
It becomes confused when quiver tips are added because the quiver tip will bend under much less load so you could in theory just pull the tip around 90 degrees and get a much lower figure.
The same applies when you look at different tapers in rod construction like fast taper rods always appear stiffer than through action rods because of the difference in lay up and taper.
The korum "allrounder" rods are closer to an avon type action than a typical commercial feeder rod.

 

[RMNDIL]

A test curve is a test curve. It’s simply Ye Olde way of measuring the ‘power’ of a rod no matter how meaningless it is these days. It simply means the force needed to pull the rod so that the tip is at 90 degrees to the butt. But it doesn’t actually tell you the power of a rod. Feeder rods are excellent examples of that because once the tip is pulled at 90 degrees to the butt that is the test curve. The Feederrtip is part of the assembled rod and makes up it’s stated length (not like a screw-in quiver of years ago). So, technically, it’s test curve is actually whichever feedertip you fit. Fit a 1oz and it’s 1oz. Fit a 4oz and it’s 4oz. But that doesn’t help the angler at all because it’s not the actual power of the rod – any rod. Just because the tip is at 90 degrees doesn’t mean the rod in it’s middle or butt sections cannot exert more – because they can. When the test curve measurement was created decades ago they didn’t have the massive variation in construction and materials which we have now. It was pretty basic in the main but the TC system did – kind of – work.

It is so easy for me to build a rod with an accurate 1lb TC but which has a lot more power than a rod with an accurate 1 1/2lb TC.

I can remember testing a Series 7 Method feeder rod against our force meter and pulling as much as I could with both hands I got it to 3 1/2lb (I think that’s right) and the rod was hooped over like you wouldn’t believe and it was even bending under the handle !! Pete and I tested the 13ft Continental carp rod back in the early 90’s (you might even remember those Ken ?) and I think we got that to a maximum of 11lb or 11 1/2lb and that was 3lb TC.

Test Curves only tell part of the story.