Qualifying matches and travel.

CluelessFishing

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CF - the issue becomes more compounded when "where a bloke who may well have had to save up hard for that £50 ticket money has a choice to make" is also a member of a team whose commitment to the 'team effort' is essential to their performance.

The real danger with this is we run the risk of putting Angling back in the spotlight and jeopardise our freedom to be able to fish as and when we want, back to square one, just at the time when more people than ever are getting involved in fishing and when the tackle trade and fisheries are making hay recouping their earlier losses.

I have bought this thread to the attention of the Angling Trust and welcomed their opinion in line with our policy of involving businesses and organisations where they are discussed within threads.
Absolutely agree with you Dave . Very good supplementary point you make regarding team anglers . One could very well be frozen out for the rest of your team fishing career ...long after this crisis has gone .
 

rudd

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No they don't .... laws were passed in a matter of days over brexit specifically in trying to prevent it and some have been passed in days over covid . With an 80 majority the government can pass what it likes at whatever speed it likes . They take years when it suits those that are passing them to take years
Ah I see, fastracked StackPath
Cannot see Boris upsetting voters though!
 

tipitinmick

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People wont take notice now ....... To take notice it needs to be law . Even then some won't take notice but many more will . The case in my OP for example wouldn't arise because there would be no event to travel to therefore nothing to break the law for . People are basically selfish ....... everybody .....to a greater or lesser degree . And we all tend to find good excuses to tell ourselves when we transgress . How many of us haven't broken the speeed limit because we were "in a rush" . Risking killing someone .
Again going back to the situation of the OP . Many of those anglers bought those tickets before there was any indication of "tiers" . Since there is no firm law preventing it the organisers of those events ...including it seems the angling trust ..... are going to go ahead with them . Therefore we are left with a position where a bloke who may well have had to save up hard for that £50 ticket money has a choice to make .... does he stay home and lose his money and his day out because he is the moral guy while many others go ahead ..... or does he go and participate with everybody else because its within the law. He may well follow every rule going to the letter ... wear a mask .... not meet non household members etc etc . But will still be vilified if he chooses to do something which is within the law but some other people will see as "the wrong thing" .
At the risk of repeating myself It all eventually comes back to the fact we need to get a grip and if measures introduced are seen as necessary make them a legal requirement . If not seen as necessary stop "guiding" about them.
You’ve just mentioned there that speed limits get broken. To my knowledge speed limits are law and like you’ve said ... get broken. Making tier 3 non travel law will no doubt get broken. Again like you say ... people are selfish nowadays. Very selfish. It’s the society that we have all created. #### your neighbour.... grab grab grab.
 

rudd

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As established by dave earlier those from another tier will be breaking no laws Caveat added .....unless from wales in which case they would in fact be breaking actual laws as opposed to

They are only National guidance in Wales- not law.
The people getting done for house parties - licensing act 2003 being applied!
 

CluelessFishing

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You’ve just mentioned there that speed limits get broken. To my knowledge speed limits are law and like you’ve said ... get broken. Making tier 3 non travel law will no doubt get broken. Again like you say ... people are selfish nowadays. Very selfish. It’s the society that we have all created. #### your neighbour.... grab grab grab.
You are right Mick but at least there would be a power of redress in terms of punishments if caught . Plus as mentioned no incentive to travel if the organisers couldnt allow you there legally .
 

tipitinmick

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You are right Mick but at least there would be a power of redress in terms of punishments if caught . Plus as mentioned no incentive to travel if the organisers couldnt allow you there legally .
Sadly there were anglers on our local canal back in March, April and May. Even one of our commercials was open. In fact I don’t think it ever shut. Disgraceful if you ask me but, there you go. Money makes folk do strange things at times. Looking back though Im not too sure if they were breaking any laws ??? Guidance yes but law ? At the time both myself and my friend Nicky Dodds didn’t go anywhere. I think we were under the impression that it was law. I don’t think the word ‘ guidance ‘ came up in any of our conversations when we were moaning about not being able to fish. We just knew we shouldn’t.
 

CluelessFishing

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Sadly there were anglers on our local canal back in March, April and May. Even one of our commercials was open. In fact I don’t think it ever shut. Disgraceful if you ask me but, there you go. Money makes folk do strange things at times. Looking back though Im not too sure if they were breaking any laws ??? Guidance yes but law ? At the time both myself and my friend Nicky Dodds didn’t go anywhere. I think we were under the impression that it was law. I don’t think the word ‘ guidance ‘ came up in any of our conversations when we were moaning about not being able to fish. We just knew we shouldn’t.
There were threads on here at the time Mick re the guidance/law situation perhaps you missed them at the time . Either way if its guidance its guidance and the moral responsibility for each to do as he sees fit . Law makes it unambiguous . As you mention there were plenty back then including you who were unsure and there are still plenty now which is why I asked the question.
 

tipitinmick

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There were threads on here at the time Mick re the guidance/law situation perhaps you missed them at the time . Either way if its guidance its guidance and the moral responsibility for each to do as he sees fit . Law makes it unambiguous . As you mention there were plenty back then including you who were unsure and there are still plenty now which is why I asked the question.
I know one thing Clueless. I’m going to have to buy a sodding map. I’ve North Lincolnshire to one side of me, East Riding of yorkshire to another, North Yorkshire just up the road and West Yorkshire to my left. I’m sat thinking .... I’ll go to X fishing. Oh, wait a minute, that’s in North Lincolnshire. Then I think .... I’ll go to XY. Then I think ... damn that’s in East Riding of Yorkshire. I defo need a map. ???
 

Dave

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Received via email just now in answer to our question:


Hi Dave

Jamie’s on leave today so I’m picking this up. There’s not too much extra to add to Nick’s earlier reply.

Basically, there’s guidance which is advisory and guidance which clarifies the regulations - ie the law.

The Angling Trust is charged with interpreting the government guidance, advising on the regulations currently in force and informing all disciplines of angling so that they may continue to fish safely.

Competitive angling remains permitted in all three tiers under the Coronavirus Regulations which provide relevant exceptions to the Rule of Six.

Namely:

“Other sports” – (materially outdoor), “which is organised by a business, a charitable, benevolent or philanthropic organisation or a public body for the purposes of allowing persons who are not elite sportspersons to take part in any sport or other fitness related activity”

“Relevant outdoor activity” – which “means a physical activity which is carried on outdoors and for which a licence, permit or certificate issued by a public body to carry on the activity, or for any equipment used for the purposes of the activity”.



However, to comply with the regulations outdoor sporting events are required to complete a risk assessment on each occasion and follow the approved guidelines laid down by the relevant national governing body. The Angling Trust has updated its guidelines which will be followed by both the Canal Pairs and the Commercial Stillwater Championship on October 24th and the necessary risk assessments are all in place.


Covid-19 - Angling Trust


It should be noted that the regulations do not cover travel between the various tiers and that the guidance in this respect is purely advisory. Furthermore, Sport England has placed no onus on national governing bodies to police the travel to and from sporting events. The decision on whether or not to attend is one left to the participants who should appraise themselves of the guidance currently in place for their own areas. The only exception is in Wales where travel for sporting events is prohibited under legislation during the ‘firebreak period’. Therefore, anglers providing a Welsh address who have qualified for an Angling Trust Final will be advised that they cannot attend at this time but will be offered tickets to the same event in 2021.


We are currently reviewing our advertised match fishing programme to see what further adjustments might be necessary.

Commercial Stillwater Championship at Lindholme Lakes is not currently in a Tier 3 area and will be run strictly in accordance with our COVID guidelines for competitive fishing.


In summary, we intend to continue to promote socially distanced angling as part of the solution to health and well being during these difficult times but this requires anglers to be sensible and careful. Our review of future competitions and other events will see us do all we can not run activities in Tier 3 areas which would tempt participants to disregard the advisory travel guidance. However, local events within these areas, not necessitating large scale travelling, ought to still remain possible.


It’s tough job keeping up to date with all the changes to the regulations but we are doing our best to interpret them correctly and advise anglers accordingly.

I hope this helps

Martin Salter

Head of Policy
Angling Trust

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also,


Hi again Dave

I’ve just had this answer to a Parliamentary Question that we had tabled on the three tier restrictions.

As you can see it confirms the advice we have published regarding angling events.

Have a good weekend.

Cheers

Martin

From: Written Parliamentary Questions and Answers <NO_REPLY.HC.QASYSTEM@parliament.uk>
Sent: 22 October 2020 16:04
To: MANN, Scott <@parliament.uk>
Subject: Written answer to your WPQ 99051 received from the Department of Health and Social Care



The Department of Health and Social Care has provided the following answer to your written parliamentary question (99051):

Question:
To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, whether angling will be included in the proposed three tier covid-19 restrictions list. (99051)

Tabled on: 05 October 2020

Answer:
Ms Nadine Dorries
:

The Government understands the importance of physical exercise and spending time outdoors.

Under the current restrictions people can go fishing alone or with no more than five others, in public outdoor spaces. People should always follow social distancing guidelines when encountering others. Outdoor angling events can also take place, if they are managed by a licenced individual, in line with Government guidance.

We are seeing COVID-19 cases rise at a rapid rate across the country and, it is vital everyone plays their part by following the measures in place. As we have shown, we are prepared to take action decisively when it is necessary to control the virus, and the Government will, as always, be led by the science.

The answer was submitted on 22 Oct 2020 at 16:03.
 

Dave

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This:

"It should be noted that the regulations do not cover travel between the various tiers and that the guidance in this respect is purely advisory. Furthermore, Sport England has placed no onus on national governing bodies to police the travel to and from sporting events. The decision on whether or not to attend is one left to the participants who should appraise themselves of the guidance currently in place for their own areas. The only exception is in Wales where travel for sporting events is prohibited under legislation during the ‘firebreak period’."

The Angling Trust have adequately answered the concerns, the fisheries have no obligation to monitor or refuse participants, the onus is on the individual angler to "appraise themselves of the guidance currently in place for their own areas."
 

Peter

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So basically the AT have no interest in addressing the question of travel between tiers and any repercussions that ensue.
Not a stance I would expect a supposed Governing Body to take. :mad:
 

Maesknoll

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So basically the AT have no interest in addressing the question of travel between tiers and any repercussions that ensue.
Not a stance I would expect a supposed Governing Body to take. :mad:
I’m not so sure they should offer anything over and above the government guidelines. They are an Angling body, not travel policemen.

Also there is mention of elite sportsmen, I assume all the consultants and full time professional anglers could call themselves elite, so if the restrictions became more severe, could they still carry on If professional sport was allowed, whilst amateur sports were banned.
 
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tipitinmick

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So basically the AT have no interest in addressing the question of travel between tiers and any repercussions that ensue.
Not a stance I would expect a supposed Governing Body to take. :mad:
Really stoooopid question as my brain is now mush with all this but, if you live in say tier 1 can you travel to tier 3 to work ? Sorry Peter. My head is frazzled. I don’t even know where Lindholme lakes are these days. ??
 

Dave

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The rules state if you live in a tier 3 you must work from home where possible, so I presume if you live in another tier but work in a tier3 area the same would apply
 

tunna

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Answer:
Ms Nadine Dorries
:

The Government understands the importance of physical exercise and spending time outdoors.

Under the current restrictions people can go fishing alone or with no more than five others, in public outdoor spaces. People should always follow social distancing guidelines when encountering others. Outdoor angling events can also take place, if they are managed by a licenced individual, in line with Government guidance.

We are seeing COVID-19 cases rise at a rapid rate across the country and, it is vital everyone plays their part by following the measures in place. As we have shown, we are prepared to take action decisively when it is necessary to control the virus, and the Government will, as always, be led by the science.


Well according to this reply, if more than 6 fishing you cannot fish !!!!!, so how can the AT sell 30- 40 plus tickets for big matches to be held ???
 
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