Nothing to get up about

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floats-direct

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Nets,
Fish friendly nets, lol

the fish in UK have got it easy

http://www.carpkillerconnection.com/
 

everyready

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this bow fishing looks good if we can modify this from shooting fish to shooting CORMORANTS this would please most of us [:D][:D][:D]
 

Beebs

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Ever seen Deliverance? Reminds me a bit of those types (not Burt Reynolds and his mates, the other ones, squeal like a piggy)!!!!!!

 

scouse

'River Man'
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cruel b*****ds
i wonder would they
like to be hunted like that
they must be sick[:(!]

dave
scouse (and proud of it)
 

Newt

'Lures Rule!!'
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scouse - strange to equate shooting fish with shooting people.

And they are taking members of a cold blooded species that is not owned, not in short supply, not pleasure fished for much, and legal quarry for a bow. I'd be interested to know why you feel that makes them "sick".

Newt Vail
 

Chopper

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Lousy cruel b***ards!

[:(!][:(!][:(!]

Lee Saville - Colmic Team Ossett

Individual 2002 World Club Champion, Zagreb - Croatia.
Individual 2002 Angling Times North East Region Winter League Champion.
2001 Embassy Division 1 National Team Champions.

www.colmic.com
 

Lid

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Each to there own I suppose. I'd like to think they are killed humanely though. We used to shoot the odd jack pike in the river if we thought there were too many cos there weren't many silver fish.

We did it with a rifle though, not a bow, and shot them through the head, once you learnt to compensate for refraction of the water. Probably illegal now.

Lid [:)]
 

Newt

'Lures Rule!!'
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Lid - as humanely at least as a gaff followed by a priest to finish the job. Not nearly as quick as a large caliber round to the head by any means though.

And if the results of the various scientific studies into the nervous system of fish and the whole "pain" thing (or lack thereof) are valid, I fail to see how "cruel" can reasonably be applied to taking them with a bow.

But if you believe it can, would it not also apply to taking them with a hook & line?

Unless, of course, it is a matter of "well, they do it with bow and arrow while we do it with hook and line and our way is fine since it is us doing it".

My only real objection is them taking the bigguns I could maybe otherwise have had the fun of catching. :) And the reality is, public waters over here that contain bigguns contain plenty of them for me and the bow guys.

Newt Vail
 

Peter

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quote:they are taking members of a cold blooded species that is not owned, not in short supply, not pleasure fished for much, and legal quarry for a bow

Just because something may seem unacceptable to us,doesn't give us the right to critisize it.
I'm sure that Newt will correct me if i'm wrong,but America is a world away and has a hunting and fishing culture that is totally different in many ways to ours.

Due to the spread of Carp the sport fishing in some areas has drastically declined. This is is blamed by some on the sheer numbers of carp now present in Lakes & rivers, which as well as forcing the natural fish out of their habitat are believed to eat the eggs of any sport fish that successfully spawn.Indeed in some areas Carp are seen as little more than Vermin.

Would you condemn the vast majority of other countries for eating most of the fish they catch, or the Polish & Isrealis for breeding and eating carp when that it is part of their culture?
Bow fishing in America is a perfectly legal and acceptable recreation/sport,and is part of their hunting & fishing culture.

Many in other countries would view anglers in this country as peculiar in the way that we treat coarse fish (especially Carp)with so much care and respect, rather than just knocking them on the head and popping them in the pot.

We may find it extremely distasteful, but do we have a right to condemn them and their culture?


Peter.

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Go Maggotdrowning.
 

Newt

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quote:Originally posted by peter

Due to the spread of Carp the sport fishing in some areas has drastically declined. This is is blamed by some on the sheer numbers of carp now present in Lakes & rivers, which as well as forcing the natural fish out of their habitat are believed to eat the eggs of any sport fish that successfully spawn.Indeed in some areas Carp are seen as little more than Vermin.
peter - you have echoed pretty much the conventional wisdom in the US regards carp. Most of our professional Game & Fish experts (similar to your EA) hold these views.

They are mostly incorrect but easy to see why that thinking is so prevalent. Carp can survive and thrive in very poor water so when they are the major species left in a lake or river whose water quality is suffering, they get blames as the cause of the problem rather than as a survivor.

And due to their feeding habits, they will certainly suck up some game fish eggs (game fish here being the ones you have and quite a few others that would/do class as coarse in the UK) but the studies I've read all agree the amount is minimal.

A group of us (CAG-Carp Anglers Group mostly) are trying hard to gain acceptance of carp as a fun fish for rod & reel and poor table fare so a great Catch & Release canidate. But since we and the bow guys are about the only ones who like the species as opposed to wanting it wiped out as a nuisance, we sometimes gotta work with them.

And I have gotten several started on rod/reel with them.

And to be truthful, I'm sure the feelings expressed by scouse and LEE are probably a majority opinion in the UK. I do know that many of the CAG members here who were former UK residents feel the same and I've been cussed at, fussed at, and otherwise by daring to state on a couple of US lists that bow anglers should be allowed to live.

I've seen the idea expressed more than a few times on UK forums that money generated by anglers should have an effect on people's thinking - make them more inclined to support anglers. Made sense.

In the US and with the exception of the St. Lawrence River where they is a good deal of UK activity, it is the bow guys who generate the money over here. Organized tourneys, specialized fish gear, etc. So, does the same thinking apply? Should the US population support bow angling because as of now, it generates lots more $$ here than rod & reel.

Newt Vail
 

Chopper

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I know this is a bit different to bow fishing but it's along the lines of cruelty and inhumane death of fish.

In the rest of Europe after a competition, they don't use nets to weigh the fish, they use small plastic buckets and a set of beam scales.

Last year what I witnessed was disgusting, all the big fish, grass carp, silver carp etc were bent in half and had there backs broken to cram them into small buckets, then a big iron weight was pushed down on top of them to stop the fish flapping so they could get a quick accurate weight.

They weighed small fish and big fish seperately and while one type was being weighed the other was left to flap about in the hard plastic buckets, some jumping out and battering themselves to death on the concrete path.

I nearly got disqualified from the competition for putting my half dead fish back in the lake after they had been battered, had their backs broke and been out of the water for up to 10 minutes. Apparantly one of the rules states they must be retained in a keep net until all the anglers in the competition had weighed in. I just wanted to give the few fish that were still only just alive a chance to get out in the lake and hopefully recover which they probably wouldn't have done in a keep net with other fish in shallow water.

After the weigh in the margins of the venue were just full of dead fish from 3-4lb Bream, 10lb+ grass carp and 20lb+ Silver Carp.

It really made me feel sick the way they have no respect for the fish that is a living creature and gives them such pleasure.

All Europe apart from the UK has this attitude towards fish and I know in some countries they don't have keep nets as such they just put all the fish they catch in baskets and weigh them all dead and just regularly re-stock the venues???!!!! WHY!?

[:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!]

Lee Saville - Colmic Team Ossett

Individual 2002 World Club Champion, Zagreb - Croatia.
Individual 2002 Angling Times North East Region Winter League Champion.
2001 Embassy Division 1 National Team Champions.

www.colmic.com
 

scouse

'River Man'
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hi newt
just because they
are cold blooded/not owned by anyone/
and not in short supply
what give them the right to
kill them in such away[:(!]
surely if they want to hunt
these lovely fish
they can find a more humain way
to do it[?]
In stead of posing in front of a camera
with the arrow still in the fish
and dripping with blood
if you call that sport
all i can say is
god help you

dave
scouse (and proud of it)
 

Newt

'Lures Rule!!'
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Dave - how about we just agree to disagree on this issue. Nothing I could possibly say would change your mind and vice versa.

I don't engage in the practice personally but then I gave up all forms of hunting after Viet Nam a good few years ago so no credit to me.

I just don't see any problem with it while you do. And if it turns out that God is a C&R carper, I may be in big trouble one day in the not too distant future. [xx(]

Newt Vail
 

scouse

'River Man'
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hi newt
no problem[:D]
i was having a chat
with a m/d and he agreed with me
but i said thats the beauty of maggot drowning
we can all have our views
and no offence taken
hope you dont mind
me putting my opinion
[:D]

dave
scouse (and proud of it)
 

Peter

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Different strokes for different folks i'm afraid.

To Gain a better view on how carp are viewed in other parts of the world some of you might care to have a look at the following.....

http://www.recfishoz.com/NCTF/index.htm
http://www.charliecarp.com/frameset.htm
http://www.carpbusters.com.au/history.html

You wouldn't want to be a carp in Australia.[:(]

Peter.

Make Friends,
Go Maggotdrowning.
 

Newt

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Dave (scouse) - As I said earlier, your opinion represents the majority one for the UK I'm sure. And this sort of thing is good for discussion. I surely did not take any offense. I was mainly trying to point out to any and all that local customs are not universal laws, much as we'd sometimes like them to be.

In the UK with your situation, bow fishing would be a horrible idea. Over here, it is more of a species-specific thing. "Rough Fish" which includes carp, gar, bowfin, and a few others simply aren't valued. Plentiful, not particularly good to eat, and not yet widely though of as good sport on rod/reel. The same guys who will bow hunt carp would probably scream in horror if anyone did the same to a largemouth bass or walleye or pike.

Peter - you wouldn't want to be a carp that got caught in OZ or happened to live in a water that was being "cleansed" of them. But most OZ carp, like most US carp, will never be in that situation. Hatch, live, breed, die, and never have the first clue that there are anglers in the world.

And while I don't kill carp for fun, I will say that if I'm fishing near someone who wants them for food, I'll usually save them a couple of smaller fish if I'm catching. Same with catfish. Any bigguns go back in but catfish below 5lbs and carp below 10lbs are just too plentiful where I live for a few going into the pot to make any difference at all except maybe to the fish in question.


Newt Vail
 

Beebs

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quote:
You wouldn't want to be a carp in Australia.[:(]

You certainly wouldn't. A friend of mine married an Ozzie soldier and when they came over here last year, he couldn't believe the fuss that we make over a fish they consider a real pest.

 

Chopper

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quote:he couldn't believe the fuss that we make over a fish they consider a real pest.

They are a pest......I can't find a decent fishing magazine these days, they are full of carp,carp,carp and more flaming carp!!!

Cat meat this and flavoured pellet that, floating, slow sinking, squid and mussel this and tutti fruity that..........whatever happened to proper fishing!!??



Lee Saville - Colmic Team Ossett

Individual 2002 World Club Champion, Zagreb - Croatia.
Individual 2002 Angling Times North East Region Winter League Champion.
2001 Embassy Division 1 National Team Champions.

www.colmic.com
 

MALC

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quote:whatever happened to proper fishing!!??

The Cormorants and Zander had em all for dinner [;)][;)][;)]

MALC
IT'S CATCHING ...BUT ARE YOU !!!
 

Polepot

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And then

Malc arrived

Poles

Great info, great guys, great fun, thats Maggot Drowners
 
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