Migrants

muskrat

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If we could simply return all the migrants to France as soon as they enter our waters or land on our shores, then they would soon realise it was a waste of time. Back that up with instant deportation of anyone later found to have slipped the net.
Too simplistic and naive maybe. But I reckon it'd work.
 

Dave

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The terminology is wrong and the use of adding a simple word would give it a different connotation - 'Illegal'

Asylum seekers are those fleeing to safety - fair enough, but what's wrong with asking for asylum in the first safe country you get to?

Migrants are people who legally move between countries, wether economic migrants, migrants just looking for the greener grass, or those migrating to join other members of their family, etc.

Illegal migrants are those that attempt to enter a country illegally, choose other routes than the correct ones, for whatever reason, but do so because they have no legitimate purpose to do so.

Those crossing the Channel are Illegal migrants, the ones that land here are illegal immigrants.
But some would like to dress it up another way.
 

Wrongfoot

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Interesting to hear on the ten o'clock news last night how those drowned people were described to suit the B.B.C.'s political narrative.
They weren't illegal immigrants.
They weren't refugees.

They were passengers.
Hah. Even the BBC are making it easier to accept their deaths by using words that minimize empathy. I can think of a lot of words that would suit a kinder narrative. They were; desperate people, families, sons, parents, mothers babies and so on. "Passengers" sits somewhere between those emotive and dismissive terms so I reckon the BBC is gauging it well. I like the term "people" myself and would have stopped at that. Also in legal terms many would've been "asylum seekers" and quite possibly fit that criteria in our law once they set foot here.

They didn't deserve to drown and die whether illegal immigrants or refugees any more than you or I do because we've scruffy facial hair. The "fault" if there is one is so removed from the outcome that debating the terminology of their status is distasteful. Not to say we can't discuss how to stop the trafficking gangs or dissuade the passengers or manage immigrant numbers. Surely we can accept the humanity of these people without that meaning we let them in?
 
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Simon R

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Back in the day we were successful at Crecy and Agincourt and captured Calais due to the prowess of our archers.

Secrete a few archers along the French coastline and puncture the boats before they even enter the sea - the trafficers will soon get fed up

Dunno why the French couldn't do something similar although the book entitled "Great French Military Victories" is a very slim publication :p :p

Simon
 

Robwooly

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The knock on effects are already in view, drove past a hotel yesterday and there was loads sitting outside, kids playing football etc. I would imagine they are high up on local councils priorities. A solution won't be found quickly. At least we are the most crowded country in Europe already :unsure:
 

juttle

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What p***s me off is that we are welcoming and accommodating these people, be they legal or illegal, feeding and clothing them and placing them in hotels, etc, where they will be warm and dry, when a 22 year veteran of our armed forces might very well be sleeping behind the bins of that same hotel having not eaten for days. Where’s the help for him and the thousands like him?
 

62tucker

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If someone enters your house illegally they get locked up. ( or should )
If someone enters our country illegally they get treat like kings.
Should all be put in camps with no escape till processing is completed. Say 1 month then shipped back to where they come from
No meeting lawyers or anyone really.
About time we looked after our own
 

Dave

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What worries me is eventually the numbers will become such that they will pose a threat to our way of living, our communities and above all, our safety.

Trojan Horse anyone?

And before the usual suspects jump up and start tying to shout me down as a racist, they couldn't be further from the truth.

Groups of young men coming from lands where tribalism, war, fanaticism, religion even, has taken precedence for centuries, where it is part of their culture and coming to the land of milk and honey only to find that their promised wealth isn't happening, where jobs aren't aplenty as part of their asylum application prevents them from legitimate paid work, where accomodation isn't all it is cracked up to be, and before long you have large numbers who are disillusioned and become angry.

50% of asylum applications are rejected, upon appeal only 30% are approved, so you have 1/3rd of all asylum applications rejected and as such the applicants then become illegal immigrants with no legal right to be here.
They cannot work legally, they cannot claim benefits, they are dependent on the communities around them to survive, unless returned home. But where is home as many destroy any documents they might have had saying where they originate from?

It's only a matter of time before the numbers become such and they form their own communities and either start dealing in drugs, crime, lawlessness, or worst of all resort back to what they know and have been bought up with, tribalism, fanaticism, religion, and start to take what they were once promised.
It's odds on at some point when you put large numbers of individuals together who are disillusioned, angry, unwanted, that they will turn against the very country that they once wanted to be part of.

I hope I am proved wrong, however just recent events that have hit the news, plus I suspect many more that haven't done so, show the writing is on the wall.
 

George Jones

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What p***s me off is that we are welcoming and accommodating these people, be they legal or illegal, feeding and clothing them and placing them in hotels, etc, where they will be warm and dry, when a 22 year veteran of our armed forces might very well be sleeping behind the bins of that same hotel having not eaten for days. Where’s the help for him and the thousands like him?
Absolutely nothing to do with immigrants either illegal or legal. It's not those coming from France that are responsible for these issues with homeless and hungry veterans, or even children. It's those coming from Eton
 

62tucker

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I wonder if they can afford to heat their homes.
Many working families are struggling to heat their homes or have to choose when they have heating on.
 

Dave

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According to the news just now there is nothing in the contents of the letter that hasn't already been discussed with France but appears to have fallen on deaf ears or been ignored.

As often stated, France don't want to resolve this situation as it transfers their migrant issues to us.
 

crackatoa

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I wonder when the penny will drop that you can't bully a sovereign nation into doing your bidding, and that cooperation works better when you are all part of some international organisation that has legally binding multilateral agreements.
 

Reuben

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What p***s me off is that we are welcoming and accommodating these people, be they legal or illegal, feeding and clothing them and placing them in hotels, etc, where they will be warm and dry, when a 22 year veteran of our armed forces might very well be sleeping behind the bins of that same hotel having not eaten for days. Where’s the help for him and the thousands like him?
There’s quite a lot of help for ‘veterans’ actually. Many choose not to take it, unfortunately.
 

Dave

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France has accused Belarus of trying to destabilise the EU by allowing thousands of migrants to gather on the Polish border, adding that it may consider tougher sanctions against the government of President Alexander Lukashenko and at the same time the EU have accused France of trying to do the same to the UK
 
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