Migrants

Pompous git

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@Pompous git
You have a challenger 🤣🤣
Phoebe me duck, you have a bite!

A few recent posts suggest understanding international agreements and UN resolutions are beyond the cerebral capacity of maggot
drowners, maybe, maybe not. For example the various EU resolutions are not for the likes of us plebs, anyway to get back on track. The
people crossing the channel in boats are not refugees, they ceased to be refugees when they passed through the first `safe country`
and have become economic migrants.

Not only have they become economic migrants they are intent on the best deal, little chance of deportation along with housing along
with benefits they could only dream about in their homeland. They are not escaping war and famine they are intent on leaving mainland
erp for the land of milk and honey. Let the bleeding hearts bleed, these people are illegals and should be shown the door.

It would be easy for our government to stop/deter these crossings but they do not, why? Perhaps the various conspiracy theorists are
not quite so wide of the mark after all.
 

crackatoa

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I dont give a shoite where people come from, what colour face they have, what religion they may or not follow etc etc, all human beings have the right to aspire to a better life.

I completely understand we now live in Post Brexit Britain where to say such things is completely frowned upon but it remains the truth.

The irony of all this is that as members of the EU there were agreements in place that France would hold these people in camps to prevent them entering Britain, they now have no incentive to do so hence what was a trickle of migrants making it over has now increased quite dramatically.

"Taking back control of our borders," didnt they say?

Har de har, Brexit eh?

You put it in the hands of entirely the wrong people.
 

willothewisp

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PG: I agree with your 3rd paragraph, that yes, most are economic migrants. History is full of such migrations worldwide! Thats reality. And it will continue: increasingly so. I emphasise this inevitability as climate change accelerates population displacements.
But you say/think it "would be easy to stop/deter crossings...." Not so I think.
Perhaps in the days of UK "Gunboat supremacy," the UK, or rather England, like other colonising nations, (Spain, France, Portugal, etc) enforcing domination by force, could behave with impunity against weaker nations. In fact the UK has been long term involved in economic migration, by enforced colonisation and slavery.
But times have changed. The UK government, despite its alleged "freedoms" of Brexit, remains inexorably entwined in the mutual obligations of our interconnected world and the threads of interdependence and cooperation with our neighbours, but no longer possesses much "clout" in terms of enforcement of its aspirations.

Brexit has weakened UK 's ability to sit at international tables where vital decisions concerning cooperative living internationally are discussed and resolved.
The drawbridges protecting former "strongholds " were eventually surpassed, as will those who now choose to seek the isolation of a perceived glorious past, including the UK.
 

Pompous git

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PG: I agree with your 3rd paragraph, that yes, most are economic migrants. History is full of such migrations worldwide! Thats reality. And it will continue: increasingly so. I emphasise this inevitability as climate change accelerates population displacements.
But you say/think it "would be easy to stop/deter crossings...." Not so I think.
Perhaps in the days of UK "Gunboat supremacy," the UK, or rather England, like other colonising nations, (Spain, France, Portugal, etc) enforcing domination by force, could behave with impunity against weaker nations. In fact the UK has been long term involved in economic migration, by enforced colonisation and slavery.
But times have changed. The UK government, despite its alleged "freedoms" of Brexit, remains inexorably entwined in the mutual obligations of our interconnected world and the threads of interdependence and cooperation with our neighbours, but no longer possesses much "clout" in terms of enforcement of its aspirations.

Brexit has weakened UK 's ability to sit at international tables where vital decisions concerning cooperative living internationally are discussed and resolved.
The drawbridges protecting former "strongholds " were eventually surpassed, as will those who now choose to seek the isolation of a perceived glorious past, including the UK.
WotW, I have no desire to cross swords with you, I`m sure you are a very nice man but your comment grates.

The remark about a `glorious past` perceived or otherwise? History is what it is and cannot be changed, it has no bearing on people crossing
the channel illegally.

We simply cannot have free for all immigration, our various resources are finite.

Brexit has not weakened our ability to make decisions quite the opposite. How on earth was our voice strong when we had to make decisions
only if another twenty odd nations said it was alright?

Immigration needs to be managed and like it or not that means deporting people who enter the UK illegally.
 

Dave

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I dont give a shoite where people come from, what colour face they have, what religion they may or not follow etc etc, all human beings have the right to aspire to a better life.

I completely understand we now live in Post Brexit Britain where to say such things is completely frowned upon but it remains the truth.

The irony of all this is that as members of the EU there were agreements in place that France would hold these people in camps to prevent them entering Britain, they now have no incentive to do so hence what was a trickle of migrants making it over has now increased quite dramatically.

"Taking back control of our borders," didnt they say?

Har de har, Brexit eh?

You put it in the hands of entirely the wrong people.
But some people say that post Brexit Britain is a shoite hole, and they were better off in the EU, so kindly tell me what the attraction is to the many migrants still wanting to come here, perhaps the anti-Brexiteers should be on French soil advising the economic migrants to turn back because we're destined to be doomed ;)
 

Not Now Kato

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But some people say that post Brexit Britain is a shoite hole, and they were better off in the EU, so kindly tell me what the attraction is to the many migrants still wanting to come here, perhaps the anti-Brexiteers should be on French soil advising the economic migrants to turn back because we're destined to be doomed ;)
Perhaps you and PG should read those links I posted earlier Dave, they explain much.
 

willothewisp

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NNK: I think that many can't be bothered either reading complex info, or trying to under lessons of history. When feeling threatened, simplistic solutions are more easily clung to.
Yes many feel threatened by demographic and economic changes over which individuals or our governments seem to have much control. This seems especially true in richer countries where often those countries "wealth" has been historically "created" by despoiling weaker countries and controlling their natural resources.
There are no simple or easy answers to humankind's endless search for a better life. Isolationism, however initially attractive, does not seem more long term productive than negotiated international agreements no matter how tedious and unpalatable they may be.
 

willothewisp

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Two corrections!
Trying to UNDERSTAND lessons of history....in first sentence.
Over which individuals or our governments DON'T seem to have much control.....3rd sentence
Sorry. Was distracted by Ch 5 boxing!
 

Lee Richards

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Lithuania and other Eastern EU and Balkan States are now ramping up their border controls to stop other states from pushing migrants onto them.
It is reported that 60% of all those on the Lithuanian/Belarus border require medical attention.
Lithuania struggles to provide this to their own nationals and the increasing influx runs the risk of collapsing their system, escalating racial tension and potential conflict with the other states.
Lithuania like other states are blaming Putin for weaponsing migration and then benefiting by the civil tensions

This is being repeated all across Europe and destabilisation of once fairly stable countries will only escalate to tension and the possibility of war.

We have nothing to worry about though as we have people here on their keyboards who know exactly what's happening in the countries at destabilisation risk and what's best for all of us. 🙃
 

willothewisp

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Dave: you write, with respect to the very relevant info provided by NNK " so I don't have time to read everything....etc"
Would it be correct then to say that any views you put forward concerning migrants and politics are poorly informed?
You, and of course each of us as individuals are perfectly entitled to our opinions. But I'd like to think that those of us making comment or proposals on such issues should seek to properly inform ourselves as much as possible.
 

Lee Richards

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So other than pontificating on a Fishing Forum where we are all going wrong, what are YOU personally doing about it to affect change?
 

Dave

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Dave: you write, with respect to the very relevant info provided by NNK " so I don't have time to read everything....etc"
Would it be correct then to say that any views you put forward concerning migrants and politics are poorly informed?
You, and of course each of us as individuals are perfectly entitled to our opinions. But I'd like to think that those of us making comment or proposals on such issues should seek to properly inform ourselves as much as possible.
I think the clue is in the word 'everything'

Unfortunately I dont have the time nor energy to trawl the Internet and news sites, other medias and various agencies looking for the fine art detail which marries up and embelishes my opinions.

Once someone pays me to do so and my contribution would actually have some weight to it and effect change, then I'll spend more time doing so.
 
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Pompous git

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I have not read NNK`s links and I have no intention to, I see the UN as a self serving mega quango. Governments will sign up to
all sorts of stuff for a quiet life then pay lip service.

Some years back me and the missis found ourselves reading EU article 41 in relation to her part time employers trying to pull a
fast over redundancy, probably the wrong section of law but hey ho. Whilst not easy to understand I would imagine a trained
solicitor would have no difficulty, however an EU judge can make decisions regarding said article in conjunction with the human
rights convention so any understanding of article 41 has now gone straight out of the window. How many people actually can say
they understand the human rights convention?
Another example is article 50 regarding a country that wishes to leave the EU, only a few paragraphs but they have to be read in
relation to other articles which then lead on to other articles and so on and so on. I will make my decisions based on common sense
and pragmatism, the idea that the man in the street needs to understand complex agreements to form an opinion is nonsense.

Whilst most of us enjoy history the fact we can learn from it is only true in a small way. Suppose the west had not interfered in the
middle east? Ditto Africa, suppose Cortes and his mob had stayed at home? If people wish to burden themselves with colonial guilt
then get on with it, it has no bearing on illegal immigrants crossing the channel.
 

62tucker

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Over 30 drowned trying to get across channel.
MSM are reporting it as if it’s been unexpected and saying it’s a major incident.
 

Zerkalo

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Chap who's head of an immigration department the other day said the biggest draw is they know everything in Britain is free. Then they go and broadcast it in internet news, probably read in Africa/Middle East. I've always said that broadcasting everything is free like that could probably clear a small African country in one article.
 

Dave

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Sad as it sounds but proportionately the number of deaths whilst crossing hasn't increased with this latest tragedy - the more that cross the greater the number of deaths will occur.

It is a tragedy and the people smugglers, the French authorities, those that encourage the crossings, those that welcome those that do, all have their blood on their hands.
What gets me is where do the smugglers get the boats from? They're not little units so must be coming from somewhere within France - find the source and cut it off - no boats, no travel.
 

tipitinmick

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The French don’t exactly seem bothered over stopping them reaching Britain do they ? And why should they I guess. They don’t want immigrants sponging off the French do they ?
 

62tucker

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I would also say life jackets are a specialist item. Mustn’t be many manufacturers of such a device. Someone or some people have order 25,000 this year that we know of.
Surely there must be some traceability of these items.
Same as dingy.
Same as outboards
 
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