Midlands angling club warned it could lose fishing rights after holding fishing match in lockdown

Stufish

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We as a club took the opinion that as the committee organise the matches then they will be liable for the very large fines if they are caught. How many committee men can spare the 10k. Why people want to try and circumnavigate the rules is beyond me. One of the clubs I help run is a rod and line only club. No pole fishing allowed. Very popular with 20 members and full membership since it started 11 years ago. Yet we have one member who when he joined spent 11 years trying to design a float for the rod that wasn't a pole float but it was everytime. My question was why bother joining then try to bend the rules.
I don't want to take this thread off track but what constitutes the difference between a float for rod and line fishing and a pole float, genuine question.
 

genesis

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I don't want to take this thread off track but what constitutes the difference between a float for rod and line fishing and a pole float, genuine question.
No problem but the angler in question was just taking a pole float and cutting down the stem or adding a quill top to the bristle. All sorts of ideas which were basically a modified pole float and not allowed in the club rules.
 

Neil ofthe nene

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One thing this has showed me is some of the 40 or 50 folk I fish various club matches with have showed themselves in a whole different light. I classed them as mates and some as good friends but I have reassessed a few of them now due to their continued whinging about the whole distancing thing especially in the first lockdown. When our matches restart in 2021 I can see me having some very quiet matches if I draw next to anyone of them. Eventually they will ask if I am alright and why I am so quiet and then I can let them have both barrels :2guns:and believe me I will.

Draw next to me and it won't be quiet, just ask @notneeded
 

Whisker

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I have yet to see one professional match angler protest against the rules, the same rules I might add that the majority of anglers are following, nope just the same minority and that goes for some fishery owners as well.
Bearing in mind the professionals actually earn their living by fishing matches, they’ve got more reason to complain about “no match fishing allowed” than us mere mortals. If they can abide by the rules, why can’t the idiots?
 

mike fox

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Bearing in mind the professionals actually earn their living by fishing matches, they’ve got more reason to complain about “no match fishing allowed” than us mere mortals. If they can abide by the rules, why can’t the idiots?
Does anyone really earn their living by fishing matches?
 

2ts

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Top Anglers have their public to placate,normal match anglers do not.
 

CluelessFishing

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this is why i have very very few "friends" the number of people who have shown their true side in both lockdowns is a total joke
You seem to be very worked up about the match thing in particular @gingert76 to the extent to be fair that earlier in the year you were very scathing when questions arose about people in your view trying to circumvent rules by pointing out that guidance was not law . In the first lockdown that was the case at the start it was guidance but you were as vehement then as you are now when it is in fact illegal as an organised contest .As far as you are were concerned guidance is the same as law and anybody not following guidance is wrong and selfish and you were very much on the attack seeing the citing of the guidance as opposed to law as simply trying to get round doing the right thing and refraining is that still your position?
 

gingert76

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firstly i am worked up about anyone breaking any rules end of! dont care who or how but the rules & guidance need to be followed and the daft people posting over and over again and trying to justify their actions for breaking those rules (will use rules to cover all now) p***es me off for sure! and it should upset everyone else including those in the NHS and the poor buggers treating those affected as well as all the other people who have had their treatment postponed as no capacity.

Not sure what you mean re guidance and law, i for one have always said (and always will) that guidance is the same as a rule which is the same as law. Never deviated from that and never will, i do not break rules or laws and i expect others to do the same, the guidance from the Gov or any Gov body such as AT HAS to be followed, ive always stuck by that and always will.

The right thing for the country is following the rules that are stated by the government, not sure how anyone can question that! so yes i would happily "grass up" anyone (friend or family) that i see breaking the laws, ive had discussions with people ive seen breaking the laws (cant do much if there is 6 of them and 1 of me but hey ho) and i will follow the rules always. The government is doing what it considers the best for all of us, people need to listen and follow and the only reason we have a second lockdown is because of idiots breaking the rules in the first place. the Government doesnt need to justify each action and decision, the whole purpose of the government is to do what it considers is the best for all of us at that given time, decisions have to be made and the Government make that decision, doesnt matter if you agree with the decision or not! i personally do not agree with the lockdown but the Government deemed it needed so it was imposed.

Same as every individual should do all they can to protect themselves and their family, that means following the rules and erring on the side of caution i.e. is driving 30 miles to a lake acceptable, for some it is as its the nearest lake to their location, for others they have to pass 6 lakes on the way so its not justifiable so any sensible person would use their own logic and common sense.

really do not understand how people cannot follow simple guidance and rules as set out by the government, especially as this is the second lockdown and the rules are clear for all

and to finish off i couldnt give two hoots who i upset on here, in real life or even in my family as if you do not agree with the above then you are the person that is the cause for lockdown 2 and any other issues that arise as you arent following the rules in the first place so i can blame you for where we are in this pandemic and you should blame yourself for it as well and the fact the rules are needed in the bloody first place! so the economy is screwed, people losing their jobs, businesses folding, the global economic impact will be wayyyyy worse than it is now and its all because people cannot follow simple rules and use their own common-sense to do the right thing and that right thing is anything that helps to protect yourself as the end of the day that is the only person the government are asking you to protect...........yourself!

Hope that answers your question
 
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gingert76

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top anglers also have a lucrative sideline of tuition if they so wish as well as all the features that they do so its not just match fishing winnings that keep them going.

nothing is stopping hem doing either during this lockdown
 

Whisker

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Yep, I get that. But some would have lost a fair chunk. Can’t remember the last time I fished a match with a £50,000 pot 🤔
 

gingert76

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there isnt that many 50k+ pots to be won compared to the number of elite anglers, and Jamie H seems to win most of them along with Steve R lol but fully get what you mean
 

Whisker

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Not just the big pots, there’s a few £1-2k match winnings being lost. My point really was they’re losing more than the £20-30 I might lose on a Sunday match. No match fishing must be hitting them harder than it’s hitting the eejits who are moaning like fook.
 

CluelessFishing

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firstly i am worked up about anyone breaking any rules end of! dont care who or how but the rules & guidance need to be followed and the daft people posting over and over again and trying to justify their actions for breaking those rules (will use rules to cover all now) p***es me off for sure! and it should upset everyone else including those in the NHS and the poor buggers treating those affected as well as all the other people who have had their treatment postponed as no capacity.

Not sure what you mean re guidance and law, i for one have always said (and always will) that guidance is the same as a rule which is the same as law. Never deviated from that and never will, i do not break rules or laws and i expect others to do the same, the guidance from the Gov or any Gov body such as AT HAS to be followed, ive always stuck by that and always will.

The right thing for the country is following the rules that are stated by the government, not sure how anyone can question that! so yes i would happily "grass up" anyone (friend or family) that i see breaking the laws, ive had discussions with people ive seen breaking the laws (cant do much if there is 6 of them and 1 of me but hey ho) and i will follow the rules always. The government is doing what it considers the best for all of us, people need to listen and follow and the only reason we have a second lockdown is because of idiots breaking the rules in the first place. the Government doesnt need to justify each action and decision, the whole purpose of the government is to do what it considers is the best for all of us at that given time, decisions have to be made and the Government make that decision, doesnt matter if you agree with the decision or not! i personally do not agree with the lockdown but the Government deemed it needed so it was imposed.

Same as every individual should do all they can to protect themselves and their family, that means following the rules and erring on the side of caution i.e. is driving 30 miles to a lake acceptable, for some it is as its the nearest lake to their location, for others they have to pass 6 lakes on the way so its not justifiable so any sensible person would use their own logic and common sense.

really do not understand how people cannot follow simple guidance and rules as set out by the government, especially as this is the second lockdown and the rules are clear for all

and to finish off i couldnt give two hoots who i upset on here, in real life or even in my family as if you do not agree with the above then you are the person that is the cause for lockdown 2 and any other issues that arise as you arent following the rules in the first place so i can blame you for where we are in this pandemic and you should blame yourself for it as well and the fact the rules are needed in the bloody first place! so the economy is screwed, people losing their jobs, businesses folding, the global economic impact will be wayyyyy worse than it is now and its all because people cannot follow simple rules and use their own common-sense to do the right thing and that right thing is anything that helps to protect yourself as the end of the day that is the only person the government are asking you to protect...........yourself!

Hope that answers your question
Well ..... I would say yes it does to an extent ............ and much of what you say I entirely agree with . However because there appears to be some slight contradictions in there I would like to explore further . Much like yourself I really dont give a flyer who I upset or who doesn't like what I have to say which I simply point out because you have done so regarding your own position therefore I will clarify mine . An exchange of opposing views even in a pointed or heated manner in my opinion does not need necessarily lead to throwing terms like idiot and moron or worse around . If debate descends into that or for that matter throwing punches around if its in "real life" so to speak I am very capable of holding my own however I personally would prefer if possible to keep it civil until attacked in such a way myself.

So putting such somewhat unnecessary position stating and so on aside I will come back to what I mean about contradiction . Firstly I agree on the law. The legal position should be followed irrespective of personal opinion on it thats a very clear simple point . I disagree with you on guidance .... guidance is not law it is what it says ...guidance ...therefore open to interpretation and therefore can be problematic . I do note of course that on more than one occasion you have stated your opinion that all angling should be stopped for the duration of the lockdown because it removes ambiguity and negates the kind of arguments we have seen on here . This again I agree on and for the same reasons ...... as pointed out by several its only four weeks and if it makes things simpler and keeps rule breaking excuses to a minimum then it has to be helpful .

Then there is the question of personal responsibility .... moral duty etc and being seen to do the right thing whether its law or not. In your words "follow simple rules and use their own common-sense to do the right thing ". The important thing there is using common sense I would say and here I would highlight a contradiction . The government are clear ..... " avoid non essential travel " ....no ambiguity there .....trouble is they go on to insert exemptions and one of those affects us anglers ... the travelling to fish . In your post above you state that using common sense and logic one would not travel 30 miles to a lake if there is a lake at ten miles . I am interested to hear the basis of the logic there ? How is travelling ten miles alone in your car safer than travelling 30 ? If its because travelling at all is really not the thing to do and we should all stay home unless absolutely necessary then how do you justify leaving the house to fish at all ? With the best will in the world not fishing for a month is not life and death . So putting aside the government for a moment and concentrating purely on the moral and personal responsibility side ..... why would you yourself go fishing at all ? Its not essential much as some might try to suggest it is ....it isnt .

So basically you are going to choose to go simply because the Government say you can . Effectively what they have said is non essential travel is banned but we will reluctantly accept that fishing can be loosely accepted as exercise/outside recreation therefore since we have been lobbied by its supporters and there are lots of them we will allow it. It then leaves a moral decision for each angler ........... because I have been thrown a workaround even though I could make other arrangements for my exercise ..... do less travel which the government is very clear on as a virus control measure.......... do I as a logical responsible citizen might do and say no ........... I will stay home . I won't travel . I will do my own little tiny bit for the good of the world and not take up the appeasement offer from the Government ..................... or great I am going to take whats on offer because I can . Would it be fair for an angler for example who decided to put away his gear , absolutely avoid unnecessary travel, walk around the block for exercise , and therefore no matter in how tiny a way and irrespective of the law has gone that extra mile to halt the virus ........... to blame you in however small a way for not doing enough ?

I think the points I raise above are fair and polite . I would appreciate a reply in the similar vein which I'm sure I will get .
 

gingert76

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i do not aim names at anyone (in the above answer) so apologies if you take it personally but you asked for my answer and i wrote it, sorry but i write what i think, i do not feel the need to elaborate anymore as my answer covered all that i consider important and answered your question.

you have different views to me, i consider law/rules/guidance all the same, you do not, no point discussing why or how as that is your view and not my view and i feel zero need to explain my views and i feel zero need to understand your views, neither of us will change so its a pointless discussion.

As for your questions around morales etc, i can do what i like as long as its within the rules that are in place so no need to expand on any point either, everyone is free to do what they want within the rules that are in place, thats it really, i dont need to justify what i do to anyone, if im not breaking rules then i am free to do anything i need. again this is within the law/rules/guidance all being treated as one, if people break those then they are breaking the rules end of (again i class all as rules)

if i can justify my thoughts to myself then im happy with that and no need to explain my reasoning to anyone, exactly the same way as i do not care about your reasoning for your beliefs and thoughts, thats not me being nasty, again i wont change your mind and you wont change mine but i cannot understand how anyone can not consider that rules/law/guidance are the same thing in this pandemic! in my mind if you do not follow them you are part of the problem.

Anyone who doesnt follow the guidelines/law/rules i class as a idiot, thats entirely my choice and i think that is a fair classification based on this global pandemic! again you will not agree and never will, you probably class me as a idiot, this is entirely your choice (i wont lose any sleep over it) but i am not the one that is the issue, the issue are the idiots are the people who are not following the guidelines/law/rules
 
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G0zzer2

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I haven't read everything - well I have but wasn't sure what points Clueless fishing was trying to make.

He says we must follow guidelines, but that if the guidelines allow fishing we should all ignore that and stay at home. That looks like a contradiction to me.

Have I got that correct?
 

CluelessFishing

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Back to the context of the OP . does anyone know the facts of what has happened regarding the whole issue . have any sanctions been issued ...official warning made or final authoatitive statements made by those in power or is all that has been written about it here speculation.
 

Neil ofthe nene

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There is little doubt the match took place. There is little doubt that the angling world was told both by the Government and Angling Trust that matches should not take place. Whether sanctions were imposed is not relevent. Given the two undoubted facts the match should not have gone ahead.
 

CluelessFishing

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There is little doubt the match took place. There is little doubt that the angling world was told both by the Government and Angling Trust that matches should not take place. Whether sanctions were imposed is not relevent. Given the two undoubted facts the match should not have gone ahead.
I haven't disputed whether the match should have gone ahead I am of the opinion it shouldn't and believe sanctions should have been imposed if breaches of the law have taken place . Organising a competitive event is against the law as I understand it . It is perfectly relevant to ask the question since if they were not imposed and there was a clear breach of the law then a a mistake has been made I really don't see how it's an irrelevant point. I don't know what the outcome was so asked if anybody else does.
 

Dave

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I doubt anyone would know the outcome other than those concerned unless at some time in the future it was put in the public domain.
 
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