Man U

H T B

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As an outsider, I think Fred is a bit of a scapegoat
I’ve seen a few Man U games, and he has kept the team together
Allowing the superstars to perform.
He didn’t have his best game today but why did Maguire pass to him when Nacho seized on the pass back ?
 

Simon Walsh

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Thing is he never scores he never really gives any assists. Now bearing in mind he’s playing in the middle of the park you’d think both of those stats would be good. It’s not just today he gave the ball away. We need an upgrade on him to be honest. If I can see his faults, then why can’t Ole?
 

Robwooly

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They are ringers. Fred's control for the first goal was not that of Brazilian it was in fact Fred from Salford signed in an admin error much like George Weah's 'cousin' back at Saint's all those years ago. Same with the lad at Newcastle - Joe Linton.

Resting players for a cup qtr final is probably not Ole's finest decision but on the bright side those players will be really up for the international break and should play well for their countries. I'm sure the United board will really appreciate that. :oops:
 

Northantslad

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There is an ounce of fairness in Fred's defence, in that he does the largely unrecognised role of getting around, breaking up play, linking into play and sitting when the centre halves part when we attack. Outside looking in he does appear to be everywhere and winning the ball for as said the more creative players and his energy and work rate can't faulted and has received the plaudits in recent weeks.

But there is also, an however imo and in that of others i think who watch the team week in week out. Possibly partly a product of his role may be, but he is usually passing a five yard ball sideways or backwards, he rarely sees or attempts the equally short, but importantly diagonal outball wide. He gets caught on the turn in possession, shooting ability questionable, passes aren't on the money in terms of it coming at you at any height and as many have said and seen, he works on around a 60/40 pass success on average i would say.

It's rough with smooth at present and his energy and perhaps also his positional discipline is seen as the main requirement in that role, he was possibly seen as or is the replacement for Herrera, a transfer i found surprising in itself.

Either way, he didn't lose us the game yesterday. Leicester won it, more than we lost it, which i think i had also suggested..................and was the first to do so after the whistle, but hey ho, dynamics and all that.
 

Simon Walsh

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Chris I get that he wasn’t the only player responsible yesterday. However, running around and breaking play up is not enough these days. He has very little end product. Can you remember the last time he scored a goal? How often does he play the killer pass? Look at what Kante does everything Fred does and so much more. If he is our future, then our future is bleak to say the least.
I blame Ole for yesterday, we had a chance to get to a semi final and he completely changed the team. What irks is there is now a break because of international games. If you look at Klopp over the past few seasons, he very rarely changed a winning team and that team kept winning and winning and in turn, he won the biggest trophies.
I honestly believe that Ole isn’t savvy enough both tactically and understanding when and why to make subtle changes to his team. I again honestly believe him to be out of his depth. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to praise him, but yesterdays team selection wasn’t an isolated incident. Think back to last years semi against Chelsea and this seasons game against RB Leipzig where he played 5 full backs and we were completely over run in midfield. He should have been the caretaker he was brought in initially for and then moved on to allow a real top class coach to take us forward
 

emmaemma

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Chris I get that he wasn’t the only player responsible yesterday. However, running around and breaking play up is not enough these days. He has very little end product. Can you remember the last time he scored a goal? How often does he play the killer pass? Look at what Kante does everything Fred does and so much more. If he is our future, then our future is bleak to say the least.
I blame Ole for yesterday, we had a chance to get to a semi final and he completely changed the team. What irks is there is now a break because of international games. If you look at Klopp over the past few seasons, he very rarely changed a winning team and that team kept winning and winning and in turn, he won the biggest trophies.
I honestly believe that Ole isn’t savvy enough both tactically and understanding when and why to make subtle changes to his team. I again honestly believe him to be out of his depth. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to praise him, but yesterdays team selection wasn’t an isolated incident. Think back to last years semi against Chelsea and this seasons game against RB Leipzig where he played 5 full backs and we were completely over run in midfield. He should have been the caretaker he was brought in initially for and then moved on to allow a real top class coach to take us forward
Like who? José Mourinho?..... Seriously, which manager do you want...?
 

Northantslad

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Yes Simon, my post was intended to be in agreement that whilst balanced with examples, overall i don't feel he is Utd quality going forwards.
First thing i thought too early on yesterday was that semi, where Ole had paid too much respect to Chelsea at the time in set up and tactics, but then not enough respect to them in the players selected.

As it went on though i did feel the opposite was also true to a degree and had tried to get praise for Leicester in early, before then highlighting the short comings that Utd fans know is there with the constant changes to the starting eleven, the annoying short comings of a good few who seem to get picked on the afraid to leave them out again lack of bottle and the effect it has on imparting any tactics at all.
 

Northantslad

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Yours too mate, we have been at the mercy of some strange signings, not always in terms of quality, but in terms of 'what, another for that position', i just think that whilst my jury is still out on Ole (nailed it midweek in a tricky tie), he has also and probably feels it too. Trying to cater for 3 left backs for example has seen Williams outed, not how we, dare i say, used to use as a basis for squad building strategy; Telles wouldn't have been bought, or the oldest would have been moved on. Yes his arrival done wonders for motivating Shaw, but Telles didn't look to chipper coming off yesterday and in the scheme of things i don't blame him. Through the last two years also it has stood out a mile that we cannot attract a youngish quality striker, when we are crying out for one with wide bias players in abundance.

You know when you used to play Fifa and would regularly fail to secure the transfer unless you specified first team regular or important team member.....Telles may just feel, did i come here for this?
 

Lee Richards

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Interesting pick up on Freds lack of goals but wasnt that only Greenwoods second goal in 24 games last night.
Martial 4 in 22

Not great for two front line strikers
 

Simon Walsh

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Agree Keith with Greenwood I hope he develops in time, remembering he is still only 19. Martial is a different animal, for the life of me I can’t understand why he doesn’t change his image. Often seems to sulk not a great work ethic and certainly gone backwards this season. Sad thing is, I think he has all the tools in the box but for some strange reason he chooses not to use them, big risk to him being moved on at the end of the season
 

Northantslad

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Greenwood does appear to be trying when he gets the chance and not being sub/subbed. That's the thing too, Greenwood is yet another of our players who are better wide, rather than out and out up top.
 

Robwooly

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My joke about Fred was tongue in cheek and goals are not really an issue for a holding midfielder, wasn't it Cantona who coined the term 'Water Carrier'?

But It's no good if you got a leaky one

Ole's tactics don't seem adaptable either as others have said, despite this they sit second and can beat teams like City, yet everytime you think they are there, they are not. It's a strange one. Is it down to the brilliance of Bruno Fernandes? It seems when he doesn't play neither do Man Utd.
 

H T B

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A while back on Sky Sports, they were talking with Kris Boyd about Palace being a one man team (Zaha) and asked him if he knew of any other team that were so dependent on one player.
Without blinking he said Man Utd.
 

Northantslad

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Ask anyone on any subject to pick a team to get one in on and it would be Utd, some pundits do it without thinking because they love to. Although with Zaha i still maintain the suggestion of him carrying Palace, does pose the question exactly where he carries Palace to? Important to them yes in the dynamic, but they aren't exactly high flyers with him in the side or when out of it, stats are stats yes, and when he is in the team etc etc, but i don't feel and have never thought that he causes others in the Palace side to up it, if he did, then Palace would be higher up the table.

If anyone felt the need to not go straight for Utd, without blinking or dare i say thinking, then Antonio at West Ham, Grealish at Villa, Kane at Spurs.

However, take Bruno's input away and it wouldn't look more than half as good, true enough. I think also and sometimes and with hindsight being a wonderful thing of course, but also the ability to eat humble pie sometimes, taking for example the current form of Martial and the current form of Lukaku, i wonder if the wrong player went and with Lukaku being a more central striker? At the time on goals scored, Martial was the in form one and Lukaku not so, again, impact of Bruno perhaps.

Other dynamics and on a similar theme running alongside the better run of form of the team overall, Pogba? I certainly didn't think i would be sat here thinking he would be key in our improvements also.
 
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Northantslad

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Right then Ole, with a new contract comes difficult decisions. De Gea back in or stick with Henderson, this decision will have ramifications either way and i'm not sure it is possible to have two keepers capable of being a number one on your books.
 
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