Man U

H T B

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I noticed Maguire didn't have his orange boots on, surely they have to replay the match :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Free hit for the Blades and they took it.
Well played them.

The Blades away record was just atrocious, however, in this league you can't take any team for granted.
 

Northantslad

'Any indications?
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'Bit of a lack of respect to Sheff Utd too, changed 50% of the back four'

Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me,do you think he would have changed his back four if he didn't have to,the fact that Man U weren't clever enough to get round them and the man of the match is a 38 years old defender I think deserves a bit of credit.you don't have a divine right to win everything.

No, no sour grapes here, so steady on, that was my observations at half time if you look before jumping in and making your assumptions i think like that.
I will usually be one of the first to praise any opposition (given the chance!) and fair play to Sheff Utd on that front.

Where yes, i felt his selection was disrespecting your team, a comment that clearly showed i have respect for them. You still had to score twice to win the game which you did. You also then had to defend in long spells, which yes again you did well and we couldn't break you down no, so for me it was about the dynamic at both ends of the pitch.
 

Northantslad

'Any indications?
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Now that i have finished fizzing, never a good time right after a game where you are fizzing, to then go for it in here, especially as a Man Utd fan for whom the rules for how you are permitted to think and write seem to be somewhat different for.

So, and related to the conversation i was having largely with myself further up the thread, which was read and acknowledged by a couple of fans of football/Man Utd who actually read it, turned out to be evident against Sheffield Utd and more recently now that City have jumped up a gear and Liverpool may well be boosted by last nights good result. Our failings i suggested would become evident when other teams get into that new year gear.

I also said and to counter act the 'you are doing well in the league what do you want exactly opinions' or ones that suggest i am another Man Utd fan who feels we have a right to win all the time. I don't feel we have that right however i do feel i have a right to suggest that we contributed massively to that result the other night, again with the shortcomings i mentioned previously and our limitations currently. So i have a right to have an opinion on my team and to offer my opinion as to where i think we could do better, as a fan of any club does. Without forgetting in this case the Sheffield Utd contribution, who were excellent to a man largely and got it spot on. I could focus on them of course, but will leave that to their fans and especially when this was a result i saw coming.

It may seem like i want some sort of utopia and Utd to be perfect, and i may be proved wrong if we do what good sides do and go on another run on the back of this result, but it won't happen and the league the way it has been this season is doing our measurement of progress no good at all and had we gone onto win the league, something i felt briefly could happen it for a day or two, wouldn't have actually done us any favours longer term.

On this, and before the Liverpool league game, Jason Macateer suggested Utd's league position is a false one and for a second i nibbled at the tinge of hook he had no choice to put in that statement as an ex Liverpool player and possible Liverpool fan i assume, but following that second with some thought and since then realised he was dead right in what he said.

The league position in May is the ultimate measure of course and results in the trophy if you are top, and again it isn't about me feeling we have a right to be there, conversely, and in all honesty we shouldn't be there and would be through largely the failings in a given season of others. It's great for the league of course and being more open, but a better measure would be to conduct that measure when every team has been fully on it.

So onto the game and still any game where i never sit comfortably watching Utd with a single goal lead at the moment, although the dynamic of many of the games have been the opposite and coming from a goal down, to then ride our luck at times in the closing stages and with a narrow lead.

I don't want to under value the contribution of the rest of the team, but i think its fair to suggest, that bar the Liverpool cup game to a degree, we have benefitted from individual moments of class and from class players, including Pogba who has started paying off the 89 million a bit quicker now. Yet even in that game itself it needed Fernandes again to nail it. Rashford has also chipped in with moments too during our run. Does it matter how you win? It does to me, because reliance on individual talent works sometimes for you, but invariably when you need to turn a game round and dig it out, a collective is often needed. The other night and on that theme, it was cringe worthy to see the 'oh, in a bit of a pickle here, best get Cavani out there to fix it substitution' on 60 minutes.

Team selection is based on what i suggested further up and i maintain isn't a healthy dynamic currently. Rashford or Martial could easily have made way on the night and on this occasion not having the best of nights, but who gets dragged off again......Greenwood, touted as one of the most natural finishers and one when Martial has gone missing and Rashford not getting much joy, who should be on the pitch for the duration on current form of the three of them. For all the squad size to keep happy, there needs to be a standard set up, otherwise we risk games with all of the changes.

I made the point about the defence, and the only thing i felt may have justified a change for the game was Shaw, who granted, has been putting the running in for the last three games and used solidly for them, so on tiredness grounds may be.

In this run, we have seen changes made positionally and early on in games, ok in needing to adapt and be a step ahead perhaps in countering something spotted, but if it happens too much, i can't help feeling that it is a sign homework hasn't been done and prep wasn't what it should be. Substitutions made soon after half time too, yes you may be seeing how someone with a knock mentioned at half time may get on, but equally when players start warming up on 50 minutes it adds to my worries that may be the half time regroup wasn't used effectively. On the other end of the spectrum and beyond there is of course the usual run time down ones. Somewhere in the middle of all that time though there have been substitutions too late in my opinion where 15 minutes of playing time has missed the moment and certainly ones too soon where as i say an effective Greenwood comes off with half an hour to go, perhaps his miss did him no favours, but i would suggest there were still others culpable for our lack of cutting through a well organised formation. I mean on the sub side of things too, not when they are sent out to warm up as a message to those on the pitch, although in Greenwoods case it would have a negative impact (me again i suppose), more when these changes are occuring, that make you go 'what, why?'

It's a pattern clear to see but very much emphasised in this game and this time it cost us.

I will end this by how Ole summed it up, 'the players and myself didn't perform to our best tonight'. A statement i found strange if i am honest. Yes, players can have off days and there are factors they can control within their performance and ones also that happen, may be also outside of their control. For, however a manager to say he didn't perform to his best, i thought what limitations are there to stop a manager performing to their best on the touchline? I feel currently that Ole has performed to the best of his ability may be. Question is will Utd be the club for him to develop his ability, if it is, then i need to be a little more patient perhaps. An under patience not fuelled on a feeling of a right to win, just one that see's how we have won and also continues to set us up for some falls of our own doing.
 
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160642fishing

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Now that i have finished fizzing, never a good time right after a game where you are fizzing, to then go for it in here, especially as a Man Utd fan for whom the rules for how you are permitted to think and write seem to be somewhat different for.

So, and related to the conversation i was having largely with myself further up the thread, which was read and acknowledged by a couple of fans of football/Man Utd who actually read it, turned out to be evident against Sheffield Utd and more recently now that City have jumped up a gear and Liverpool may well be boosted by last nights good result. Our failings i suggested would become evident when other teams get into that new year gear.

I also said and to counter act the 'you are doing well in the league what do you want exactly opinions' or ones that suggest i am another Man Utd fan who feels we have a right to win all the time. I don't feel we have that right however i do feel i have a right to suggest that we contributed massively to that result the other night, again with the shortcomings i mentioned previously and our limitations currently. So i have a right to have an opinion on my team and to offer my opinion as to where i think we could do better, as a fan of any club does. Without forgetting in this case the Sheffield Utd contribution, who were excellent to a man largely and got it spot on. I could focus on them of course, but will leave that to their fans and especially when this was a result i saw coming.

It may seem like i want some sort of utopia and Utd to be perfect, and i may be proved wrong if we do what good sides do and go on another run on the back of this result, but it won't happen and the league the way it has been this season is doing our measurement of progress no good at all and had we gone onto win the league, something i felt briefly could happen it for a day or two, wouldn't have actually done us any favours longer term.

On this, and before the Liverpool league game, Jason Macateer suggested Utd's league position is a false one and for a second i nibbled at the tinge of hook he had no choice to put in that statement as an ex Liverpool player and possible Liverpool fan i assume, but following that second with some thought and since then realised he was dead right in what he said.

The league position in May is the ultimate measure of course and results in the trophy if you are top, and again it isn't about me feeling we have a right to be there, conversely, and in all honesty we shouldn't be there and would be through largely the failings in a given season of others. It's great for the league of course and being more open, but a better measure would be to conduct that measure when every team has been fully on it.

So onto the game and still any game where i never sit comfortably watching Utd with a single goal lead at the moment, although the dynamic of many of the games have been the opposite and coming from a goal down, to then ride our luck at times in the closing stages and with a narrow lead.

I don't want to under value the contribution of the rest of the team, but i think its fair to suggest, that bar the Liverpool cup game to a degree, we have benefitted from individual moments of class and from class players, including Pogba who has started paying off the 89 million a bit quicker now. Yet even in that game itself it needed Fernandes again to nail it. Rashford has also chipped in with moments too during our run. Does it matter how you win? It does to me, because reliance on individual talent works sometimes for you, but invariably when you need to turn a game round and dig it out, a collective is often needed. The other night and on that theme, it was cringe worthy to see the 'oh, in a bit of a pickle here, best get Cavani out there to fix it substitution' on 60 minutes.

Team selection is based on what i suggested further up and i maintain isn't a healthy dynamic currently. Rashford or Martial could easily have made way on the night and on this occasion not having the best of nights, but who gets dragged off again......Greenwood, touted as one of the most natural finishers and one when Martial has gone missing and Rashford not getting much joy, who should be on the pitch for the duration on current form of the three of them. For all the squad size to keep happy, there needs to be a standard set up, otherwise we risk games with all of the changes.

I made the point about the defence, and the only thing i felt may have justified a change for the game was Shaw, who granted, has been putting the running in for the last three games and used solidly for them, so on tiredness grounds may be.

In this run, we have seen changes made positionally and early on in games, ok in needing to adapt and be a step ahead perhaps in countering something spotted, but if it happens too much, i can't help feeling that it is a sign homework hasn't been done and prep wasn't what it should be. Substitutions made soon after half time too, yes you may be seeing how someone with a knock mentioned at half time may get on, but equally when players start warming up on 50 minutes it adds to my worries that may be the half time regroup wasn't used effectively. On the other end of the spectrum and beyond there is of course the usual run time down ones. Somewhere in the middle of all that time though there have been substitutions too late in my opinion where 15 minutes of playing time has missed the moment and certainly ones too soon where as i say an effective Greenwood comes off with half an hour to go, perhaps his miss did him no favours, but i would suggest there were still others culpable for our lack of cutting through a well organised formation. I mean on the sub side of things too, not when they are sent out to warm up as a message to those on the pitch, although in Greenwoods case it would have a negative impact (me again i suppose), more when these changes are occuring, that make you go 'what, why?'

It's a pattern clear to see but very much emphasised in this game and this time it cost us.

I will end this by how Ole summed it up, 'the players and myself didn't perform to our best tonight'. A statement i found strange if i am honest. Yes, players can have off days and there are factors they can control within their performance and ones also that happen, may be also outside of their control. For, however a manager to say he didn't perform to his best, i thought what limitations are there to stop a manager performing to their best on the touchline? I feel currently that Ole has performed to the best of his ability may be. Question is will Utd be the club for him to develop his ability, if it is, then i need to be a little more patient perhaps. An under patience not fuelled on a feeling of a right to win, just one that see's how we have won and also continues to set us up for some falls of our own doing.
Fair play Northantslad perhaps I was a bit hasty with the sour grapes comment,I'm just not used to us winning !,
 

160642fishing

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Anyone want a cup final programme versus Chelsea 2007 for the cost of postage @ £3 before I throw it away.
 

H T B

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Saints in danger of another pummelling
4 down and man down at half time
 

Northantslad

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Result skewed with the sending off. Felt for the lad to be honest, not any maliciousness for me, may be a bit excited yes, may be a bit of instruction to stamp an authority on the midfield early on, but largely a bi-product of refs usually letting the 'first one' go with leniency.
 

Wise Owl

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Man united being aided so they can get their goal difference up, its so blatant its untrue.
 
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