Man U
- Thread starter 62tucker
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When did the refs stop booking for simulation?
There appear more attempts to "win" a penalty, but ref just waves play on.
Last night Martial should have been booked for simulation.
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Why do ya think they are in second in the prem ? Some refs can’t see the play acting mate or they been bunged
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You mean for trying to imitate a professional football player ?
Northantslad
'Any indications?
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Fred continually giving the ball away and i would like to see this reflected in the substitutions, rather than McTominay regularly making way.
Also start with Greenwood or at least get Rashford central then Greenwood out wide, when Martial starts to go missing.
Would have subbed him on the strength of the dive anyway if not before.
Also start with Greenwood or at least get Rashford central then Greenwood out wide, when Martial starts to go missing.
Would have subbed him on the strength of the dive anyway if not before.
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What the team lacks is consistency, they are not consistently good, and they are not consistently bad.
When you look back at Fergies squads the integration of players was seamless, you didn't notice if a 'star' player was missing because there was always someone capable of stepping into the breach, I don't see that in this squad
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It's Football ,you win some you lose some, we should of subbed the Ref at half time
Northantslad
'Any indications?
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Like i felt further up in the thread, league position can be deceiving and i did say when the others are on it, our weaknesses would again be highlighted, and they were against City, trouble is i don't think all is well is terms of the dynamic at present and perpetuated by some of Ole's decisions. However, can anyone level this point at Ole, when he can easily turn round and say 'have you seen the league table' in defence of his selections?
I maintain though the league table doesn't drill down to:
Who has got you there, Bruno largely, with some other steady performances and moments of individual moments and one or two starting to be a bit more consistent.
Plenty of penalties yes, i get it too, although is amplified when it is us and there will be plenty of other teams that people don't like to talk about getting fortunate decisions, it happens every week, but is a factor.
So, the dynamic. I am not a mind reader, but i suspect there are one or two who starting to feel 'him over me, really'? somewhat. Everything is fine in a team when there is plenty of football available, but we are slowly dropping out of competitions, which takes opportunity away to keep all match fit and 'happy' (players are human regardless of money before anyone jumps on the 'happy' use of word. Also rumblings that Van Der Boek isn't happy and i don't blame him one bit.
I don't feel that Ole exploited the all of the opportunities in league, league cup, FA cup remains to be seen today as does the second tier of euro football to come, but didn't in the champs league anyway. Trouble is he is now under pressure to win a trophy and the more we try and cling to lifelines of success that are slowly dropping away, yes, recently at semi stages, the less rotation will take place.
Linking to more reliance on Bruno, when that happens you become a team of shut down the main man and you shut down the team, or he burns out under the minutes or the over reliance, or frustration creeps in when others undo his hard work, by not reading it, or worse an unwillingness to act on reading it.
We bought Telles, yet Shaw featured more recently and didn't shine, especially in recent games when he was more than once beyond opposition full backs, yet lost the advantage the run and ball between had gained. Where does this selection leave Williams? Who had demonstrated when given the chance he had the right mindset.
Martial seems to be selected on the strength of the potential for a minute of talent being shown, but for me is missing the other 89 minutes of a game or trying to take on 4 defenders, with the type of goal he does get on the odd occasion highlighted by his tally so far, these are one in ten chances that come off.
For all of the opportunities for rotation, i am a believer in not tinkering with the back bone of a team, especially centre half pairings and Bailey had proved to me that he was the better option over Lindelof, who was always a yard or two away from where he should have been the other night.
Pogba's move from a one out of five or six to seven recently is more frustrating as it is better to see, in that he can do it, at least provide options anyway, but still not tracking/marking when required. I don't think anyone can be blamed for being cynical and perpetuated by his agent's thoughts he readily shares, that is all of this upturn in time for the January window.
In terms of cup games, another example that made me wonder about the fear of who may kick up and who may not, was when Romero (looks like he is on his way, through a more natural time process than anything else, but good keeper) was in the sticks right up to a cup final, then benched for the final, you don't do that these days and he should have had his moment.
More than once i have felt that in terms of in game substitutions or when deciding on substitutes from the start, there has been fear of the backlash influencing the decisions, and i am not sure that at Utd these days, it pays, as a player to have the mindset that actually you need in players.
McTominay, Williams, Greenwood and more, are all keen, don't have anything to say and get on with their job off the pitch and always when on the pitch when given the chance and tow the line, outcome is that these players and in adopting that mindset become an easier target for being on the bench, getting the odd 20 here and there or even not featuring. McTominay must sit there and watch Fred, and see what everyone surely sees, probably just 50% of his passes going to one of our players, when he isn't also losing the ball on the turn in our third. Williams or Telles seeing Shaw lacking that final yard in being a position for delivery and in tucking back in when needed. In the case of Greenwood, it is clear to see what he brings to the options.
Might seem odd, me thinking that things aren't harmonious, when there are currently 18 teams below us and this isn't me thinking we have a right to be winning every game, just really highlighting why i feel we are stop start so much, i don't reckon it's a happy camp and some of the players have a right to be frustrated in my opinion. There are plenty waiting in wings, but the more they wait, the more Ole is clipping those wings or any desire to fly when given the opportunity. If not rectified and the squad size considered, at least where we have 3 or sometimes four players for nearly every position, then i predict some more eye brow raising exits from the club, if not in Jan, but definitely in Summer.
I maintain though the league table doesn't drill down to:
Who has got you there, Bruno largely, with some other steady performances and moments of individual moments and one or two starting to be a bit more consistent.
Plenty of penalties yes, i get it too, although is amplified when it is us and there will be plenty of other teams that people don't like to talk about getting fortunate decisions, it happens every week, but is a factor.
So, the dynamic. I am not a mind reader, but i suspect there are one or two who starting to feel 'him over me, really'? somewhat. Everything is fine in a team when there is plenty of football available, but we are slowly dropping out of competitions, which takes opportunity away to keep all match fit and 'happy' (players are human regardless of money before anyone jumps on the 'happy' use of word. Also rumblings that Van Der Boek isn't happy and i don't blame him one bit.
I don't feel that Ole exploited the all of the opportunities in league, league cup, FA cup remains to be seen today as does the second tier of euro football to come, but didn't in the champs league anyway. Trouble is he is now under pressure to win a trophy and the more we try and cling to lifelines of success that are slowly dropping away, yes, recently at semi stages, the less rotation will take place.
Linking to more reliance on Bruno, when that happens you become a team of shut down the main man and you shut down the team, or he burns out under the minutes or the over reliance, or frustration creeps in when others undo his hard work, by not reading it, or worse an unwillingness to act on reading it.
We bought Telles, yet Shaw featured more recently and didn't shine, especially in recent games when he was more than once beyond opposition full backs, yet lost the advantage the run and ball between had gained. Where does this selection leave Williams? Who had demonstrated when given the chance he had the right mindset.
Martial seems to be selected on the strength of the potential for a minute of talent being shown, but for me is missing the other 89 minutes of a game or trying to take on 4 defenders, with the type of goal he does get on the odd occasion highlighted by his tally so far, these are one in ten chances that come off.
For all of the opportunities for rotation, i am a believer in not tinkering with the back bone of a team, especially centre half pairings and Bailey had proved to me that he was the better option over Lindelof, who was always a yard or two away from where he should have been the other night.
Pogba's move from a one out of five or six to seven recently is more frustrating as it is better to see, in that he can do it, at least provide options anyway, but still not tracking/marking when required. I don't think anyone can be blamed for being cynical and perpetuated by his agent's thoughts he readily shares, that is all of this upturn in time for the January window.
In terms of cup games, another example that made me wonder about the fear of who may kick up and who may not, was when Romero (looks like he is on his way, through a more natural time process than anything else, but good keeper) was in the sticks right up to a cup final, then benched for the final, you don't do that these days and he should have had his moment.
More than once i have felt that in terms of in game substitutions or when deciding on substitutes from the start, there has been fear of the backlash influencing the decisions, and i am not sure that at Utd these days, it pays, as a player to have the mindset that actually you need in players.
McTominay, Williams, Greenwood and more, are all keen, don't have anything to say and get on with their job off the pitch and always when on the pitch when given the chance and tow the line, outcome is that these players and in adopting that mindset become an easier target for being on the bench, getting the odd 20 here and there or even not featuring. McTominay must sit there and watch Fred, and see what everyone surely sees, probably just 50% of his passes going to one of our players, when he isn't also losing the ball on the turn in our third. Williams or Telles seeing Shaw lacking that final yard in being a position for delivery and in tucking back in when needed. In the case of Greenwood, it is clear to see what he brings to the options.
Might seem odd, me thinking that things aren't harmonious, when there are currently 18 teams below us and this isn't me thinking we have a right to be winning every game, just really highlighting why i feel we are stop start so much, i don't reckon it's a happy camp and some of the players have a right to be frustrated in my opinion. There are plenty waiting in wings, but the more they wait, the more Ole is clipping those wings or any desire to fly when given the opportunity. If not rectified and the squad size considered, at least where we have 3 or sometimes four players for nearly every position, then i predict some more eye brow raising exits from the club, if not in Jan, but definitely in Summer.
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Northantslad
'Any indications?
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Team for tonight.
Henderson- as is a domestic cup game again, i see why, but indication building that De Gea's days are numbered as number 1- be plenty of teams that would snap your arm off for him still.
Williams- At Right back???
Bailly- Back where he should be- tick
Tuanzebe- Nice for the lad, but another new pairing now at CB, we might be disrespecting Watford a little.
Telles- Back where he should be, but clearly has caused the left dominant Williams to go to RB.
McTominay- Back where he should be
Van De Boek- Too little to late, lets hope he has it in him to have the will to prove himself still
(Still a waste to have two sitters in front of a back 4 imo)
Mata- Nice touch, good servant since he joined us and ok if can get his foot on the ball
*Lingard-Last chance saloon
*James-Needs to show the form that made us buy him
Greenwood-Better wide and cutting in rather than up top, but wouldn't put it past him to score- does his job wherever he is played at present.
*These two are an enigma. James played two good games for us since he joined- his first two. Lingard looks more and more like his face doesn't fit from the old crop Ole inherited. Both must be on a decent wage- Lingard through years of service and James when he signed a decent deal- neither getting much game time and not sure if that comes from not earning game time or one perpetuating the other.
Can't help feeling that too many of these selections are 'better give them a run before they start knocking on the office door' and thrown into some sort of formation. Yes, i wanted some in and some out, but when you essentially play two different 11s in consecutive games, i don't expect the consistency factor to improve any time soon, Ole has got things to this random point where his hand is forced into this basis for picking the side.
Stable back bone and alter the fringes for me.
Could be interesting this evening.
Henderson- as is a domestic cup game again, i see why, but indication building that De Gea's days are numbered as number 1- be plenty of teams that would snap your arm off for him still.
Williams- At Right back???
Bailly- Back where he should be- tick
Tuanzebe- Nice for the lad, but another new pairing now at CB, we might be disrespecting Watford a little.
Telles- Back where he should be, but clearly has caused the left dominant Williams to go to RB.
McTominay- Back where he should be
Van De Boek- Too little to late, lets hope he has it in him to have the will to prove himself still
(Still a waste to have two sitters in front of a back 4 imo)
Mata- Nice touch, good servant since he joined us and ok if can get his foot on the ball
*Lingard-Last chance saloon
*James-Needs to show the form that made us buy him
Greenwood-Better wide and cutting in rather than up top, but wouldn't put it past him to score- does his job wherever he is played at present.
*These two are an enigma. James played two good games for us since he joined- his first two. Lingard looks more and more like his face doesn't fit from the old crop Ole inherited. Both must be on a decent wage- Lingard through years of service and James when he signed a decent deal- neither getting much game time and not sure if that comes from not earning game time or one perpetuating the other.
Can't help feeling that too many of these selections are 'better give them a run before they start knocking on the office door' and thrown into some sort of formation. Yes, i wanted some in and some out, but when you essentially play two different 11s in consecutive games, i don't expect the consistency factor to improve any time soon, Ole has got things to this random point where his hand is forced into this basis for picking the side.
Stable back bone and alter the fringes for me.
Could be interesting this evening.
Northantslad
'Any indications?
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Was a bit more fluidity, but again, in terms of measurement, Watford had made 6 changes and with all respect to them, didn't seem to be changes for the better.
Was better last night than the last time we fielded an almost different eleven, whereby in the quarters of the league cup, we looked like exactly what it was until the last 20 - a team that hadn't played together.
If some of those who featured last night, don't get a look in for Burnley and Liverpool games, then the same pattern will continue.
Was better last night than the last time we fielded an almost different eleven, whereby in the quarters of the league cup, we looked like exactly what it was until the last 20 - a team that hadn't played together.
If some of those who featured last night, don't get a look in for Burnley and Liverpool games, then the same pattern will continue.
Northantslad
'Any indications?
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Now talk this morning of Williams, potential with clubs interested for going or out on loan....
If that happens then clear the strategy is all wrong, take the three players that really are left side full back/wing back:
1. Telles- recently purchased and for a reason you would think
2. Shaw-Times up ahead of a promising youngster and against a new signing surely
3. Williams-An up and coming youngster, but has proved is a lot more game wise than his age suggests
You take number 1 as the main pick, with factoring in number 3 to continue to develop surely
This pattern is evident across a number of positions and if Williams does make way it will be a disaster.
The keeper situation for example too, we have got ourselves into a similar position, in terms of having two that could be a number one. (The criticism of De Gea i think has been over board at times when those in front of him are far from stable). Impossible to keep two number ones happy.
Either the club structure changes to ensure team management including incomings and outgoings is solely the decision of the manager. If it currently is, then the manager isn't the right one. Or we get a director of football that takes common sense up to the boardroom level and reminds them this is a football club, where even in a business model, successful marketing starts from success on the pitch, it will creep up on the club over time if that success drops.
If that happens then clear the strategy is all wrong, take the three players that really are left side full back/wing back:
1. Telles- recently purchased and for a reason you would think
2. Shaw-Times up ahead of a promising youngster and against a new signing surely
3. Williams-An up and coming youngster, but has proved is a lot more game wise than his age suggests
You take number 1 as the main pick, with factoring in number 3 to continue to develop surely
This pattern is evident across a number of positions and if Williams does make way it will be a disaster.
The keeper situation for example too, we have got ourselves into a similar position, in terms of having two that could be a number one. (The criticism of De Gea i think has been over board at times when those in front of him are far from stable). Impossible to keep two number ones happy.
Either the club structure changes to ensure team management including incomings and outgoings is solely the decision of the manager. If it currently is, then the manager isn't the right one. Or we get a director of football that takes common sense up to the boardroom level and reminds them this is a football club, where even in a business model, successful marketing starts from success on the pitch, it will creep up on the club over time if that success drops.
Northantslad
'Any indications?
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The result on Sunday been mis analysed for me. Progress measure seemed to be that as we got took apart last time at Anfield and didn't this time, we have progressed.
Nope, not the same Liverpool as last season and had we put out what was yet another different layout this time, we would have got taken apart even more then. What i took from Sunday was that Liverpool aren't the same side as they have been and on a lean run, that was the difference between the possible effects of having Martial defending on the edge of our box, Pogba on the right and yet again Greenwood on the bench and Liverpool beating us again.
I wouldn't have been complaining had any of our isolated chances gone in, but in terms of football it wouldn't have rested easy with me, nor would have all the subsequent plaudits that Utd are title contenders, when you simply shouldn't win anything playing that way.
I don't think this premier league is a good one this year for measuring progress, all you can do is win it of course and it won't have anything else stamped on the trophy, more frustrated that i felt they were there for the taking and we didn't.
Nope, not the same Liverpool as last season and had we put out what was yet another different layout this time, we would have got taken apart even more then. What i took from Sunday was that Liverpool aren't the same side as they have been and on a lean run, that was the difference between the possible effects of having Martial defending on the edge of our box, Pogba on the right and yet again Greenwood on the bench and Liverpool beating us again.
I wouldn't have been complaining had any of our isolated chances gone in, but in terms of football it wouldn't have rested easy with me, nor would have all the subsequent plaudits that Utd are title contenders, when you simply shouldn't win anything playing that way.
I don't think this premier league is a good one this year for measuring progress, all you can do is win it of course and it won't have anything else stamped on the trophy, more frustrated that i felt they were there for the taking and we didn't.
Northantslad
'Any indications?
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Who would have thought Pogba would be impacting on the dynamic now? I didn't for sure.
Caused a down turn in Fernandes though, or perhaps a bit of pressure off him, pressure i think he did enjoy though as the main man.
Bit of trying too hard creeping into his game, trying to remind everyone he is still the man, but the worldy cross-field passes not coming off.
Linking to the left back conundrum, Shaw had some plaudits recently, but when he has now got into a crossing position, his ball doesn't beat the first man invariably. Got plaudits too for keeping a currently under par Salah quiet......
Personally if i was Telles i would be sharing the plane out of Manchester with Van Der Boek when he gets on it. Were these really Ole's signings, may not appear to be when he maintains faith in Shaw and Fred.
Caused a down turn in Fernandes though, or perhaps a bit of pressure off him, pressure i think he did enjoy though as the main man.
Bit of trying too hard creeping into his game, trying to remind everyone he is still the man, but the worldy cross-field passes not coming off.
Linking to the left back conundrum, Shaw had some plaudits recently, but when he has now got into a crossing position, his ball doesn't beat the first man invariably. Got plaudits too for keeping a currently under par Salah quiet......
Personally if i was Telles i would be sharing the plane out of Manchester with Van Der Boek when he gets on it. Were these really Ole's signings, may not appear to be when he maintains faith in Shaw and Fred.
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Great free kick by Bruno , now if he could only do that against the top teams
Northantslad
'Any indications?
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Well, big 45 minutes coming up here.
The poor decision aside- foul on our keeper-goal given, no foul on theirs, goal not given.
This will see if we are title contenders or not and if Ole has the tactical knowledge to turn it round.
We look like a team that hasn't played together so far, nor have they and there lies the problem in having to ensure giving people games. Instead of having a stable side and factoring in the odd couple of changes here and there, too much chop and change. Problems of our own making therefore and a Sheffield Utd team that doesn't look like budging.
Bit of a lack of respect to Sheff Utd too, changed 50% of the back four.
And we still insist on playing two mid holders, may as well play with 10 men.
Liked the look of McTominay recently and touted as the next main man, he aint going to be playing 1 in 3 at best.
The poor decision aside- foul on our keeper-goal given, no foul on theirs, goal not given.
This will see if we are title contenders or not and if Ole has the tactical knowledge to turn it round.
We look like a team that hasn't played together so far, nor have they and there lies the problem in having to ensure giving people games. Instead of having a stable side and factoring in the odd couple of changes here and there, too much chop and change. Problems of our own making therefore and a Sheffield Utd team that doesn't look like budging.
Bit of a lack of respect to Sheff Utd too, changed 50% of the back four.
And we still insist on playing two mid holders, may as well play with 10 men.
Liked the look of McTominay recently and touted as the next main man, he aint going to be playing 1 in 3 at best.
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'Bit of a lack of respect to Sheff Utd too, changed 50% of the back four'
Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me,do you think he would have changed his back four if he didn't have to,the fact that Man U weren't clever enough to get round them and the man of the match is a 38 years old defender I think deserves a bit of credit.you don't have a divine right to win everything.
Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me,do you think he would have changed his back four if he didn't have to,the fact that Man U weren't clever enough to get round them and the man of the match is a 38 years old defender I think deserves a bit of credit.you don't have a divine right to win everything.
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