Liberty & Livelihood March -your opinions

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Dave

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Hi everyone,

When driving back from Wales I couldn't help but notice the banners for the CA's Liberty & Livelihood March in London on the 22nd September. Again whilst out today in the countryside.

What are your opinions on it.....

For further information: http://www.march-info.org/march2/index.html

Dave
 

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I think it is vital that we support the march.

I was at the CLA Game fair held at Broadlands and listened to many views on Angling and other country sports, and what their future may be.

So if you can make the time please support the march

Poles


Great info, great guys, great fun, thats Maggot Drowners
 

Trogg

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I won't be supporting the CA.

They didn't want to know untill hunting was threatend & now they want us to jump on board because there's so many of us.

below is a cut n paste from the AN forums (i couldn't be bothered to re-type it all).


Had a fella come in the garage one day with a "cute" little badge on his jacket it was a CA one.

I asked him if he was involved with the marches & the likes & he said yes but he wasn't happy that the "fishermen" were invited to join as it made them (the ca) an easier target for the anti hunt brigade.

I kept my temper & mouth shut (first time for everything) & let him carry on with his "schpeel", apperently us anglers are responsible for the destruction of miles of river bank, deaths of livestock & destruction of thousands of pounds worth of crops.

Oh & according to this fella the ony "real" anglers are the fluff flingers.

Then he said "what do anglers do to help the environment"!!

Now i was really really trying to be polite & "nice" as i informed him of the SAA (which i'm sure he should have heard of), SACN, RSSG, ACA & other organisations that are around all started by anglers.

he called me a "bloody liar" as he'd never heard of any of them, when i asked him if he ever went fishing or knew any anglers his reply was "not bloody likely they're all a bunch of lower class oafs" .........................

Temper no longer being held back, foul mouth mode on turbo, total amnesia of where i was & the other customer in the shop i......... well i'll leave you to guess what kind of "schpeel" i gave him.



Alan

I'll have a fiver on the black un
 

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Far be it for me to disagree with Alan but I feel it is important that we should take heed of the total situation. It must not be deemed as a them and us senario. We all have interests in leisure activities that use the countryside and we need to work together - even if there are differences between us, these need to be put away for now.

At Broadlands Charles Jadine - a well known fluff flinger and Matt Hayes - ....... were keen that this should be supported. Fishing will be in line for attack as soon as the anti's have suceeded fully on thier current issue - that of hunting with dogs.

It is important that all countryside leisure activites remain intact as they, frequently unknowingly, work together for the good of our moors. commons, lakes, tarns, rivers, woods ponds etc. The views of individuals are important but we must be seen to be at one.

Alan, I assure you that this individual that came into the garage is certainly not typical, in fact he is more likely the exception that proves the rule

We must work together

Poles

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Geoff P

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Now I am ready to vent my spleen, so to speak.

I was born and raised in the countryside about 12 miles from Hastings in a small village called Netherfield, 3 and a half miles from Battle.

If those elected morons from the labour party had seen the damage foxes do they would not ban fox hunting. Farmers lose chickens, lambs, and I have seen damaged calves in the field. Foxes also dig for worms etc in bad times which can cause no end of damage to land.

Of course all the do gooders think of foxes of sweet little creatures. More fool them because foxes do not kill because they are hungry. They will kill every chicken in a coop and not eat one.

I would not join the CA as an angler but as a person against the government.

The trouble is the morons in Parliament think more of animals, and refugees (although I class them together) than they do the British people. Perhaps one day the labour morons ( I do like that word) will start listening to the electorate and vote the way we intended on not in line with a jumped up prat like Tony Blair. But then they are only there for the money not for what benefit they could bring to the country.

Contentious - I hope so. I make a point that these thoughts are mine and not those of the owner of this website.

Geoff

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Dave

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Hi everyone,

My initial thoughts on this were 'Yet another Rally' where upon a group of individuals were to march and protest to publicise their beliefs. The more I read of it it seems to be a well planned rallying of the troups to push home a point.
One quote from their site "We have already reserved over 3000 Coach parking spaces in Central London." indicates that they are anticipating larger numbers to attend which brings back the memories of the anti-poll tax marches.

I'm not a believer in marches or protests as such because in the main they seem to accomplish little other than a bit of congestion and maybe a write-up in the local papers. But if they on this occasion acheive their aim then surely the whole of the 'countryside sports' (and I use the term loosely) would benefit.
Don't get me wrong, I have lived and worked in the countryside, I have attended Hunt Balls as a young-un but I don't condone some of the methods used in fox hunting which gives rise to the argument that it is a blood sport.

As regards the CA (Countryside Alliance) and the association that has been made with angling I personally (as a layperson) am not sure whether their intentions are true on this one or one to swell the numbers but one thing that I will say is that I have yet to see an angling body jump to the angler's defence in the same way as the CA are in support of their members.
With the possible implications should the Anti brigade get their way and then the real threat that angling in general will face would one of 'our' bodies rally the troops in such force or would they once again bury their heads in the sand until too late?

It makes you think sometimes whats and ifs.

I know your thoughts on this Alan with regards your incident but then again as in all cases can one person or a small group of persons opinions be indicative of the majority?

Dave
 

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I put this post in the Fishing topics bit, but since you asked for my two penneth, here it is again:The problem is, that hunting is a minority sport loathed by the majority, and angling is a a majority sport loathed by the minority. Most people in Britain are against hunting. However when it comes to angling, most people think of it as a peaceful pastime, not pounding through the country blowing horns, killing foxes for the hell of it.
If the CA can get anglers on side, it would look like we are condoning hunting and I for one do not. They would get a lot of people showing their support for something they may not neccesarily agree with, just in case the antis turn their attention to angling.
Well, the antis have turned their attention, but the difference is that fishing is the most popular pastime in the world and a multi million pound business, bringing money to places where there may not be much and employing many thousands of people. Hunting is not exactly in the same league now is it? How many of us 'Commoners' are ever likely to get the chance to go on a fox hunt?
Angling needs to fight its own corner with its own arguments, not jump into bed with the hunting fraternity because "We'll be next." as they put it.
Some MP's may well be against angling, but before they ban it completely, they're gonna have to come up with an alternative to just throwing bailiffs, tackle shop owners, tackle shop workers, fishery owners, tackle manufacturers and everybody else involved in the angling industry onto the dole. On top of that, are they going to start throwing people who nip down to the river for a sly fish on a Sunday into jail. If every fisherman in the country did that, just for one day, where would that leave the justice system? With a few million people destined for the slammer and no slammer to put them in.
I think that what is happening is that the Pro Hunt lobby are looking very much like losing the right to their sport and knowing they haven't got many people to aruge their case, they are looking to the angling community to back them up.
Majority of public opinion is against hunting, that's not the case for angling. Fishermen would be best off leaving the hunters to argue ttheir case and worry about their own sport, rather than show support for something we really have no involvment in.


Geoff - my feeling is that if foxes are a pest, then there should be pest control to take care of the problem, not just have a bunch of Hooray Henry's go around killing them for what, at the end of the day is their own pleasure and then make out they are trying to do people a favour. But I share your opinions of the Labour Party.

Trogg - I'm with you all the way on this one. Let them sort their own mess out. If all anglers stuck together, the Anti's would have no chance. The number of Anti's may be growing, but so are the numbers of anglers just look at the EA's Rod licence sales.

Anglers are panicking prematurely, it brings in far too much money into the economy to just be outlawed on a whim.


 

Geoff P

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quote:Geoff - my feeling is that if foxes are a pest, then there should be pest control to take care of the problem, not just have a bunch of Hooray Henry's go around killing them for what, at the end of the day is their own pleasure and then make out they are trying to do people a favour. But I share your opinions of the Labour Party.


Where ever did you get the idea that all those that follow the hunt are "Hooray Henry's". My youngest brothers father in law, now dead God rest his soul, worked for a hunt in East Sussex for 50 years. Just an ordinary guy, who lived in a Council house. Had he been alive him and 12 other employed by this one hunt would be out of work.

Like a couple of thousand around the country, not counting those whose livelihoods depend on the hunt, i.e. feed merchants, farriers, leather workers etc.

Don't think for a moment that angling is safe because of the millions that take part in it. The morons that run the labour party, and IMO that includes those that vote for them, do not really care what anybody else thinks, or how they feel. They have the opinion that all they do is right and proper and if it means appeasing the soft under belly of the electorate then ban angling they will. If some millionaire like Geoffrey Robinson promised them a large donation to ban fishing then the Labour Party would. Like prostitutes, as the Bernie Ecclestone donation proved, they would do anything for money.

I have yet to hear Mr Salter give an opinion on this. Perhaps he hasn't had permission to open his mouth from Bambi and Mrs Blair.
God protect us from weak, hypocritical MPs, and that could mean all of them.

I actually do believe that there isn't a person in Parliament who isn't there just for the money, and not with a wish to do well for the country. In case you think I am a blue, I wouldn't vote for that mob either.

Geoff

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Ziptrev

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Martin,
Following beebs lead, I have posted my support for your aims both here and on the similar Club house topic.
It is obvious unfortunately that Amglers are too diverse to join as a body.
I shall not march, but will willingly register support.
Geoff , look seriously at live-baiting and the natural food chain.
Scott, spot on.
Trev
Dave,
You know I love you like a brother lol, but you do start some topics off!
I have held off my reply, as I dont wish to upset anyone, but, although in my time allocated I can see no change coming to my Angling, I have 2 sons who are in real danger of losing the enjoyment I receive from it.
Basically, because prejudices are the greatest support possible for the killjoy antis who wish to see political correctness (i.e. Drab conformity) rule throughout the globe.

Angling has absolutely no hope of surviving the next 50 years in its current liberal form in this country, because the divisions are far, far to wide to ever be united!

But that is why we have no hanging in this country.
A few weeks ago, Dave posted a topic concerning bogus council workers preying on the aged.

I posted support saying it was because there was no deterrent and that we should bring back hanging, by referendum I was sure it would be passed.

I had no support, was told that, because of the few innocents hung, it was impossible, despite the 100 + innocent victims that have been murdered by released convicted killers, since hanging was abolished.
Then I visited the North Level Fish-in.
Passing through Lakenheath and bypassing Soham on my journey!

On return home, I was amazed to find post after post not just hang, but torture! A man, with reportedly mental problems, who had not been tried, let alone convicted, of any crime!

What a shame those poor young girls had to die to make people think to agree to hanging, and I did not and do not ask to sink to the levels of the mentally incompetent, just to quickly and cleanly remove them from society and any chance of a repeat performance!

And so to this topic.
The 1st reply I read is from another forum, by an anonymous poster about a 3rd anonymous character, whose attitude is extreme to say the least!
Did anyone with a brain believe he existed!
If the man had been Black, we would have immediately dismissed it as British National Party propaganda and I bet the Anti that made the story up is rubbing his hands with glee that anyone would be taken in by such arrant nonsense!

By perpetuating the class divisions in hunting and fishing the purpose of divide and rule is served admirably.
As I have previously posted, I find Fluff Flingers to come from every social spectrum and as helpful as a carp lake Angler (If not more so)

Dave then with usual tact, points out he is in a minority, but if it is not imagination, then that minority is 1 and to post it as truth, is the biggest help the antis could ever have!
If I did not know Alans love of fishing and agree with him on other points in this topic, I would as a stranger assume him to be a Green or similar!

Then Beebs has his two penneth
Why should They come up with an alternative income for the employees of the insignificant fishing trade?
Do I not remember you saying you were Welsh?
If Im wrong, come up here to Derbyshire and ask the miners what happened to their Industry, 1st under Tony Benn, (Real Labour not Blairs deceit) and then under Maggie?
Bit more significant than Fishing jobs for our BRITISH industry. Yes, you know! Good old Brit jobs like Shimano, Kamatsu, Daiwa etc.,
Then the hunting attacks!
How many of us commoners?
Please dont include me or my friends in this epithet, I know of many country people who follow the hunt avidly, for the spectacle, the tradition and the sheer exhilaration, whilst belonging to the deprived or lower socio-economic groups that abound in the countryside.
However, with the later Hooray Henry comment, the obvious prejudice is clear to see and destroys any credibility.

And economics again.
What about the jobs and tied housing of the kennel lads, whippers in, huntsmen, grooms etc?
What about the millions of dollars spent by tourists to visit the National Hunts each year?
AND what about the hundreds of Ponies and Hounds that, surplus to requirements, WILL be put down.
My nephew Tony, in his RSPCA employment, regularly appearing on Pet rescue in the Bawtry area, may have that job!
Dont tell me someone should find them homes, they cannot cope already.

Ask Dai Fish.
Nationally respected as a specialist in the animal world, he knows to his utter chagrin, the speed of disposal by the RSPCA of perfectly healthy animals.

Also, the fact of hunting is that the vast majority of hunt followers never even see the kill!
Most are there for the same reason we have Fish-ins.
Company and taking part.
Never mind if the fishing is poor, or no foxes are found. The thrill of riding in company, or witnessing the splendour of the cross-country chase, over rough terrain and unkempt hedgerow is enough.

Finally, the hunt abolished, the vermin fox proliferates and the urbanised filth it creates as territories are forced to expand, leads to trapping, wounding and generally creating a much crueller existence than it currently could envisage!

Probably by then, our Cruel animal quarantine laws will also be abolished and an animal, infected by a rabid continental fox, will bite a child and there will be calls for its extinction.

But then, my birth certificate carries my fathers occupation as Farm Horseman so what do we know, coming from the country.

Fishing is the most popular pastime in the world and will never be under threat?
Try Germany,
30 million more population than us and the only legitimate reason for fishing in Germany is to eat the fish!
Any fish over a certain size (And by heavens they are small sizes) MUST be killed, or its off to the courts!
Never happen? Its already started!
A few million people thrown into the slammer for slyly fishing on Sundays?
Well if ALL the licence holders, according to the EA (less than 1 million) did it, it is still less than 2% of the UK population. Not much of a lobby! And absolutely no threat to a political expedient like Bambi.
Perhaps you support and condone another million or two, who evade the licence?
In France, farmers make up 15% of the vote and as you see, from blockades, sheep burning etc. practically rule the Country over their interests.
In Britain, they are relatively insignificant with 2 and 1/2 %, but bigger than our lobby and most support the CA in principle.
So, joining with them makes sense, but it will never happen, as we are all too self-centred and insular.

Live Baiting?
Thanks Alan, I dont believe you practice it, but like Geoff, who rarely fishes rivers, but is in the RSSG, allow others to do so.
A Roach is the natural food to Predators such as Perch and Pike.
Chub like slugs as I so recently discovered.
Tell me the difference.

I recently have live-baited twice on the Trent.
Small Roach were lip hooked in a known Big Perch swim for approximately 2 hours each time.
No takes, so at the end of the session, I unhooked each of them and released them.
They both swam away!

According to much comment, if I had quickly and humanely killed them, I would not have been slandered for using them as dead bait!

I prefer my way.

They only want us to protect hunting, where were they when we needed them?

When did we need them? except for this live baiting ban that has now been implemented in Cumbria and Geoff, ignore the propaganda, Alan is right, it is the thin end of the wedge.
Fish caught from the lakes for use as live bait cannot be a threat to the population; they are already a part of it.
It is only imported fish that should be stopped, which is a reasonable law, already in place!

So, we havent needed them yet and they havent needed us, but when they are gone, we shall stand alone, wishing we had them with us!

Respect too, that they insist on REAL supporters, so its going to cost you at least 60p per minute on the phone to register.
They dont want freebie SACN type sign ups, which are totally meaningless in the Opinion Poll world, but have bravely put out a deterrent to joining by the insistence of put your money where your mouth is
You wont be asked for a penny from the antis!

Right, rant over and if Ive lost friends Im sorry.
Its blatantly obvious that we should support them, and equally obvious that as a GROUP, anglers dont exist.

I shall register support, knowing that the antis wont, that the apathetic (By far the largest group) wont and that I shall be in a minority.

I have no interest in hunting whatsoever; only regret that a fellow human beings pleasure is very soon to be denied them and a sure and certain belief that, once it happens, angling will be moved up the hit list.

I will not march, but then Im selfishly going fishing! While I can!

Its later than you think and I just, again selfishly hope that it wont happen in my time!
Fat chance of that LOL

Cheers

Trev


Ziptrev
Enough! I'm off!
 

Dave

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Interesting reading Trev, not that I agree with all of it though but that is what debate and opinions are all about icon_smile_big.gif

I am going to close this thread because we have a similar one in the Fishing Talk forum, so can we continue it there rather than have the two running parallel ?


http://www.maggotdrowning.com/forums/threads/1935


Thanks,

Dave
 
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