Kite Mark

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floats-direct

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Sorry for not having too much time to get involved more with the forum

We just wanted to put our point of view over about approved nets.

Avidly reading the fishing press and staying in contact with some of the professional bodies we have watched like many of you in dismay at the handling of this subject and asked perhaps like you did why do we need this, where is it coming from and what does it mean to us.

Comments like someone making a few bob and it's not law yet all apply on the approved net front but what is behind it [:D]

From the commercial point of view the new approved net scheme being introduced to some waters at the moment is on the verge of happening and we have no choice but to react.

The nets and their approved logos are in manufacturers warehouses ready for the shelves.

Behind all the fuss is fish friendly nets and fish welfare,

well who wants to get involved in looking after fish [?]

As a company we do and have to be seen as doing so.
Is that not true of all Anglers involved in our sport [?]

There is a choice get an approved net or not and rightly so, for the fish there is no choice more chance, getting caught and being popped into a friendly net or getting popped into little more than a Brussel Sprout bag.

I think it is a good thing, I think it is a matter of choice as well
and should remain so

What do you feel on the subject; a few bob being made or fish welfare

Oh PS

There is a laid down guideline at the Environment Agency site on the subject of nets that has spurned on the decision for fish friendly nets at some waters

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/subjects/fish/246986/255175/255274/?version=1&lang=_e
 

baz.thornton

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Years ago when Mono-fil nets came out we were assured these would be the way forward. After getting myself a new mono net (landing and keep) early last year and also getting my son both for Xmas, i am now told these are bruussel sprout bags !!!! If something is going to be done regarding nets lets have it across the board and a date set for the new nets to be compulsory (like when knotted nets were banned)
 

Dave

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Apparantly confusion is rife in the tackle trade after the kitemark for nets was introduced by the Angling Foundation.

A number of people understand that the nets are part of some additional new environmental regulation that has been instigated. There are also stories about sales agents allegedly telling retailers that they must buy kitemarked nets as they will be the only ones permitted.

One of the people behind the scheme, Roy Marlow, a key member of the Premier Fisheries group, was quick to correct the situation by saying that you do not need a kitemark to fish at his fishery, providing the net used is fish friendly. What they are attempting to do with this mark is take out any confusion when an angler buys a net hoping to be able to use it. Buying a net with the kitemark will guarantee that it can be used anywhere, but he stresses that these nets are not the only ones that are environmentally friendly to the fish.

David Middleton, boss of Middy International, called the situation a complete shambles He was staggered when he opened his January issue of Tackle & Guns and saw a poster with a letter extolling the virtues of this kitemark and basically giving the impression that all other nets on the market are likely to be made redundant.

He had phone calls from retailers saying they cant sell his nets now and his agents have been getting grief its a total fiasco and has done the trade no good at all. And, to compound the whole situation, it is understood that not one net with a kitemark is even available in the country.

David is also concerned about the signals a kitemark gives to certain anti-angling groups as the last thing he wants is for some crackpot scientist to start looking too closely at the industry. He, like many, is all for fish welfare and conservation, but where is the scientific proof that these nets which tend to be polyester are better than monofilament? There really is no absolute proof either way, apart from that fact they feel softer. What about the slime factor? We are told slime is good for fish, yet these soft nets take more off! Think of it logically, what is to stop some idiot claiming all nets are harmful to fish, where will the industry be then?

Although worried about a potential backlash from the trade over his views, David is defiant. The important thing for retailers to remember is that this is not a new law. Nets have to meet the Environment Agencys bylaws, which all theirs do. Now if a few fisheries want to bring in their own regulations that is entirely up to them, but retailers and anglers should remember these fisheries add up to less than 80, which is a fraction of the number available in the country.

He is also concerned as to the make-up of this whole thing. For a start he has never been invited to submit any of the Middy nets and, besides, why should he send in a new design when there is a competitor of his on the accreditation panel?

The whole thing is a dogs breakfast, with retailers not knowing what they can or cannot sell, suppliers with stocks of nets which retailers are now afraid to buy and a divided industry - what good is that for anyone?

One of the early supporters of the scheme is Keenets whose chief executive Gerry Metcalfe said that they spoke to many retailers at the Tackle & Guns Trade Show and informed them that new fish friendly nets would be available in 2003 and, as far as we are concerned, nothing has changed. They have invested heavily in new netting and see it long term as good for angling and good for the industry.

Certainly the launch of the kitemark appears to have taken a number of people in the trade by surprise, so much so that it has forced the Angling Foundation into issuing a statement to the angling press and certain suppliers - it reads:

At a recent meeting of its Nets Accreditation Group, The Angling Foundation formally tested the first batch of nets and allied products submitted by its members. Five companies submitted a total of 32 products for testing, and 27 of these were approved because they met the guidelines on unabrasive, fish-friendly mesh and complied with Environment Agency bylaws on nets and other fish-retention equipment.

During the next few months many of these items will start appearing on retailers shelves, each carrying the foundations distinctive, water lily logo and unique approval number. This label provides an immediately visible means of identifying nets that have been tested and have met the fish conservation standards. To accompany this process, the Angling Foundation has distributed posters to all angling retailers, fisheries and other interested parties to raise the awareness of the foundations work and demonstrate the differences between approved and non-approved nets.

The scheme is entirely voluntary, and anglers who currently use soft-meshed nets should not experience problems in using them at fisheries across the country. However those anglers with harsh or rough-meshed nets may find that they are prevented from using them at certain fisheries, particularly at those controlled by the Commercial Coarse Fisheries Association and by members of Premier Fisheries.

Anglers in doubt about the acceptability of their nets at their normal fishing venues are advised to contact their fishery directly. Those anglers that are considering purchasing a new net should check whether their fishery will require the use of an approved net in the future or whether the fishery is happy to allow suitable nets, irrespective of whether they are approved by the Angling Foundation or not.

Further companies are already in the process of submitting products for testing. The outcome of the tests is confidential to each company, but products that gain approval are listed on the Foundations website (www.anglingfoundation.com).


Dave
 

esox.20

04/11/01 - 12/10/15
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I have followed this 'debate' with some interest. From what I have read it seems that a step back in net design has happened. The rough and ready test apparently is to scrunch the net up and rub it on the back of your hand. If it 'scratches' its not of the 'approved type'. Very scientific!!!!!
It seems to me that this is a move by a part of the commercial fishing owners and some manufactures to corner the net market.
First we had you cant use that bait its no good only the bait I sell is approved.
Now its nets.
Whats next? Because were sponsered BY ????? if you dont use their rods and reels you cant fish?

chill out go fishing

 

Dave

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Turnover DeclarationPlease tick as appropriate We declare that our turnover in our last complete trading year of the qualifying products was:
Band 1 Less than 50k Band 3 Between 75k-100k
Band 2 Between 50k-75k Band 4 Turnover over 100k
Qualifying Product DescriptionPlease tick as appropriate coarse landing nets; carp sacks;
keepnets; unhooking mats;
weigh slings;
Fee PayablePlease tick as appropriate Band 1 500.00 Band 3 1500.00
Band 2 1000.00 Band 4 2000.00


....Have you seen how much it cost for a manufacturer to join the Angling Foundation Ltd add to that a 'testing fee of 100.00 per net [:0]

Crikey, and its all for fish welfare is it !!!??? or maybe for the benefit of the Angling Foundation [:(!]

AND take a look at this page and then tell me it's not a money making venture: http://www.anglingfoundation.com/nets.asp

It would be more interesting if they listed their Directors as well

Dave
 
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Dave

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Just sent them this email:

Dear Sirs,

As an angler and website owner that is frequented by many, would you please like to take a look at this thread on our forum and try to expand on the nature of the Angling Foundation and it's objectives.

The thread can be seen here: http://www.maggotdrowning.com/forums/threads/3481

There is a great cause for concern amongst many anglers that they will have to dispose of their nets and replace with new, in order to fish at various fisheries within the UK. Many of said nets are relatively new, in fact many are still for sale or held as stock items in shops throughout the UK.

Regards,

Dave Webster
www.maggotdrowning.com



So let's see if we get a response...

Dave
 

Peter

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Like many on this site I'm probably none the wiser as to what is going on?????????????

As far as i'm aware EVERY landing & keepnet sold by all the major manufacturers in this country meets or exceeds the guidelines set out by the Environment Agency. These nets are ALL LEGAL.

Now along come the Angling Foundation (who the hell are they?????????) and try and tell us that this type of net can or cannot be used.

Much mention has been made of the use of a kite mark,This is patently wrong as the BSI Kite Mark is only awarded to a product after rigorous testing by the British Standards Institute.
The kite mark is a registered trademark and is only available under licence from the BSI.

So what we have is a "Lily Mark" which would appear to be an arbitary logo awarded by the Angling Foundation, a body that appears to have no juristiction over angling at all,

Have any talks been held with the NFA or any other governing body,or any of the other manufacturers that weren't party to the setting up of the Angling Foundation.???????????

Has anyone consulted the Tackle Dealers that are in all probability sitting on stocks of nets that they may or may not be able to sell to anglers who are now looking for the Lily/Kite mark???????

Does anyone other than the Angling Foundation,really know where they stand?????.I've been into 5 tackle shops within the last 2 weeks and not one of them had a "lily Mark" net on sale.

Peter.

Make Friends,
Go Maggotdrowning.
 
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mookie

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Hi Dave -- I wouldnt hold ye breath mate [:D]....l always thought these micro mesh carp sacks etc....were the in thing......but l found them impossible to sink properly..and as you said they took more slime off the fish......
I have bought a Dinsmore two mesh landing net which according to my tackle shop was fish friendly.....so untill someone tells me otherwise l will be using it everywhere.......[^][^]
Theres a lot of anglers out who got new nets etc for xmas, now they will be wondering if its worth taking them to these so called fish friendly carp puddles....
Would it be better to ask the owners of these ponds, why do you have to stock thousands of fish into a small pond....to mean that means.....stunted growth and bad management..[V][V]..nothing to do with how us anglers keep our precious catches...[:(!]..

Anyway sod the puddles l am off chubbin tomorrow..on a river [^]..catch ye on the 9th Feb mate......tightlines....


Cheers all........

MOOKSTER.....[:D][:D][:D][:D]
 

Dave

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Added on to that:

quote:At a recent meeting of its Nets Accreditation Group, The Angling Foundation formally tested the first batch of nets and allied products submitted by its members. Five companies submitted a total of 32 products for testing, and 27 of these were approved because they met the guidelines on unabrasive, fish-friendly mesh and complied with Environment Agency bylaws on nets and other fish-retention equipment

Which in my reckoning 5 companies/members at lets say 'Band 3' equals 7,500 membership fees, plus 32 products tested at 100 a time, which equals 3,200 in testing fees.
So therefore a grand 'nice little earner' of 10,700 so far....... and they're not a profit making company?

If someone would like to give me that amount, I'll gladly drag their nets over my hand and tell them that they're okay


So c'mon Angling Foundation Ltd, tell us what it's all about - we're all ears.....

Dave
 

Lid

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Some of my nets have are designed for trout and salmon. They have a wide soft knot-less mesh. It's not monofilament though, the material is stranded. They are real good for fast flowing rivers, as they don't take you downstream with them.

Are these deemed fish friendly or not!!

I say get a net that you feel treats fish well and as long as it meets EA regulations, then stuff the Angling Foundation, whoever the hell they are!!!

Lid [:)]
 

esox.20

04/11/01 - 12/10/15
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I make no secret that I hate commercial fisheries. So I refuse to fish them. Thats my choice and it doesnt stop me from respecting others who choose to do so. What I would say to all anglers who use these fisheries is, its time to take a step backwards and have a rethink. Are we being ripped off by unscrupulous money mad people. If so then lets vote with our feet and make the point that enough is enough.
To finish I have heard from a couple of sources that a local fishery has brought in a new ban on feeding the swim. This ban is??????!!!!!!!!! 'no maggots to be loose fed'. Never heard of this one before but just shows how far things can go.

chill out go fishing

 

angler-mark

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It's just another Con trick to squeeze more money from us who like to pursue a great hobby. If the Angling Foundation is so worried about fish welfare, let them at their own cost do all the research and then I will listen to them, but until then, I buy my nets from my supplier and use them and assume they are suitable to use, If a fishery tells me that they are not suitable, then I will leave that fishery and they will lose my business. I'm the head baliff of my fishery and I like to think I care about the fishes welfare, not the profit I can make.Unlike certain greedy commercial fishery owners. If enough people stop fishing these venues, then they would certainly change their views on the matter. [:(][:(][:(]

These are my personal views and are not in any way the views of this site and anyone associated with it. ( Just in case Dave ) [:)][:)][:)]

Tight Lines

Mark


 

Simon R

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I've no idea if my net is 'fish-friendly' or not, but its fairly new and completely legal.

As far as I understand it, its only the Premier Fisheries which are going to insist on the use of the new nets.

To the best of my knowledge none of these fisheries allow the use of keepnets whilst pleasure fishing anyway. Therefore the only people it will affect are the those taking part in the matches and to be honest if you can afford to blow 15-20 in pools money every week, you should be able to afford an 'approved' net.

One thought that has just occured to me is what happens if you get a bus-load of anglers turning up at a venue for a club match and half the anglers don't have 'approved' keepnets? Do they just have to sit and watch for the next 5 or 6 hours?

We had a club commitee meeting the other night and out of the eleven of us I was the only person aware of the new 'kitemark' - and thats only through reading about it here.

Tight Lines

Simon
 

esox.20

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quote:One thought that has just occured to me is what happens if you get a bus-load of anglers turning up at a venue for a club match and half the anglers don't have 'approved' keepnets? Do they just have to sit and watch for the next 5 or 6 hours?
In short YES unless new nets are purchased from them. I wonder what price these new nets will be if purchased from the fisherie??

chill out go fishing

 

Beebs

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When I bought a keep net and landing net last year, I made sure I got a nice soft mesh net, so as not to scratch the fish excessively, even paying a bit more than I would expect to normally pay. My nets don't have kite marks. So are these 'legal'? Who's hand do they have to be dragged across to determine soft or rough?

I'm all for fish welfare and thought I had done my bit to help, but apparently not so.

 

haydn.borthwick

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I went with Teepee top a comercial fishery and the rule there seems to be that if you are pleasure fishing.....no net....fair enough I can accept that.
If you go there on a match then they provide the keep nets.......I say many out to dry ..BUT did not see a kite mark on any of them, so why do they assume there net is better than mine?... I do not know if they charge for you useing them....Teepee may know....BUT if it is cheap then I can even live with that.I was bought a new net last year as a present by my daughter and the tackle shop assured her it was one of the latest and best. It is a `D` shaped net to hug the river bed better. It has no kite mark but I cannot afford to go buy another so I will use it & if told by a venue that I cannot then they lose my partionage.



Take nothing but memories, leave nothing but footprints.
 

Big Brian

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There is charge at straight mile fishery for the use of their nets.. to fish in a match you pay an extra 1 but when in a match they organise the draw, and do all the weighing in.
In my opinion this is better than taking a wet net home in the car.
I am waiting to see if the net rule comes in as I have 30 net sets that may be deemed illegal at some of the venues we use for Skylarks... will the fisheries relent.... will I have to get more nets or try and find a venue that will accept what we have and have enough pegs suitable for up to 30 wheelchairs?

Men and Fish are both in trouble when they open their mouths!!!
 

Lid

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Nice e-mail to the Angling Foundation, Dave. I wonder if they will respond.

Lid [:)]
 

Dave

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Not sure Lid, but for a 'concerned body', 'non-profit making' - their words, sure looks business orientated to me.

The following information was gained from public records:






Should anyone have reason to believe that the above should not be displayed, please contact me: Dave@maggotdrowning.com

This guy DAVID JAMES POMFRET is also a director of Sports Industries Federation and 15 other sports related companies

Makes you wonder what the 'real' reasoning is behind it all, doesn't it


Dave
 

TINY

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Are you sure you are a moderator and not CIA.
Good work though.Andy
 
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