I Have Had Enough! (Lengthy Rant)

Zerkalo

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That's one of Herzog's best documentaries in years, I completely agree with the recommendation.
 

NoCarpPlease

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Sentencing as a deterrent.

My opinions on this subject are driven in part by what I know of Singapore. In most years in Singapore there are no homicides committed using a gun. I believe that is because of the use of sentencing as a deterrent.

To understand this I think you need to look first of all at the punishment for murder and whether it acts as a deterrent. Many years ago I heard the following argument given by a guy called Adrian Love on Capital radio as to why the death sentence for murder is not a deterrent. He said murders can generally be split into three categories.

First is the pre-planned murder. As part of the planning the murderer will generally think they can do it in a way so as to avoid suspicion and or detection. Hence the punishment does not enter the equation as the murderer thinks they will not be caught.

Second is the terrorist. Terrorists see themselves as martyrs for the cause and are generally prepared to suffer death either at the time or as a punishment. Hence the death penalty would not prevent such murders.

Third is the crime of passion, that is carried out in a moment, when the red mist descends, when anger takes over and no thought is given to the consequences.

I personally would add a fourth and that is murder committed by someone not of sound mind, insane or mad if you like. This may be as a result of mental illness or caused by ingesting a mind altering substance.

In none of these categories would the death sentence be a deterrent.

Singapore though have looked one step prior to the murder and, in applying very strong sentences, including capital punishment, to actions that could lead to murder have eradicated if not murder itself certainly murder and other crimes using guns.

If you make the sentence for carrying the means to murder or serious injury (and I mean the common such as guns and knives) severe enough as in Singapore then you will remove that threat. These sentences apply to accomplices and thus in a way becomes self policing.

No doubt people will still carry out murders. But with intelligent use of sentencing the threat of being shot, the threat of being stabbed in an amusement park or hospital can be reduced.

Finally, Singapore have had the same party in power for over 50 years. As explained to me by a tour guide last year "Because they do what they promise to do". How often have we wished that of our major political parties?
I agree with the first part of your post there Neil - but I think there are likely to be other causal factors in the Singapore experience, for example the majority chinese ethnic population may be more predisposed culturally to following rules, the general standard of living is really high so there is not so much poverty driven crime.
Personally - on my very limited 3 day experience of Singapore it felt very controlled and quite oppressive - which can be a consequence of making too many rules and having overbearing governance ... the ability to make a choice is removed in practice - which is one essence of freedom. I wouldn't want to live there myself.
 

Pompous git

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Hang `em and flog `em, too much mucking about.

Six people in a cell designed for two, hard luck.

Robbers burglars rapists etc are dirt, they should be treated as such.

All rehabilitation is cobblers.

Suppose we had a society where everyone had a bit more respect for everyone else and their property, life would
take an upturn for all concerned council block or leafy suburb. This is not some impossible dream, it will however
require sentences that work not wishy washy nonsense that sits comfortably on the shoulders of the woolly minded.
 

Arry

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If you commit a crime there should be a punishment... not a pat on the head and an "aaaaw but he's had to do without an X box when he was a kid" excuse... "rehabilitation" should take the form of a daily bloody good hiding for being an 'orrible little @rsewipe... sorry... but I firmly believe if you do wrong there should be punishment and not mollycoddling...
 

Tinca Steve

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My penny's worth.
Crime should be punished, all personal rights lost once convicted.
Cause death and found guilty - death penalty as soon as possible, they won't do it again will they.
3 and your out or in their case in !
They get two chances, the third is the end.
Any non British or duel passport holders on their 3rd hit do their time then rejected from Britain and any British passport cancelled. They also have to remove all dependants.

It was their choice to do the crime.

Human rights should only go to those who deserve them and respect others rights, crime disrespects all rights.
 

Rick123

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Great thoughts there Neil , totally agree I’m at a point now where I can’t be arsed with people in general no time for the majority anymore .

Oh my, we must be twins? I find people so disengaged with others, its all about them. I have many acquaintances but few friends, when was the last time a friend phoned, just to ask how you were?
 

genesis

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Oh my, we must be twins? I find people so disengaged with others, its all about them. I have many acquaintances but few friends, when was the last time a friend phoned, just to ask how you were?
In the old days your friends had to ring you to ask how you were. Now it's just a text or a tweet.
 

John Step

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I agree with Neil's thoughts. Judging by the replies and "likes" so do most on here. I suspect that view is held by a very sizeable majority in the country. (UK).
Perhaps the silent majority will finally boil over and things get changed. It certainly will not be if mainstream wooly media has anything to do with it.
There has been a groundswell of the silent majority succeeding this day 1st Jan 2021, so who knows although it may take some time.

Already there has been talk that benefits will not be paid to those who take the illegal route into the UK.
The racist accusations will be thrown no doubt but thats not true. Many of us grew up listening to black artists on records and watching them on Ready Steady Go and not thinking anything racist.

The route out of racism is for everyone to integrate and not promote segregation via BLM, Black Police Association, MOBO Awards, Black Month on the Beeb etc. It breeds distrust and suspicion. Perhaps thats what the activists want. Why do they make such a big point of it all the time.

Before anyone kicks off , my family is mixed and I love them to bits.
 

Tinca Steve

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We SWMBO and l had two favourite records played at our wedding, Louis Armstrong -What a wonderful world and Nat King Cole - Unforgettable . I have nothing against anybody don't matter what colour race or religion they are, what l do have a problem with is what is now known as ' WOKE'
 

Louis D

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I carry a knife, have done for many years, after a couple of close encounters it males me feel safe.
I don't support a liberal attitude, life should not be easy for prisoners - hard, not inhumane - make things unpleasant and provide a return to the public purse would be my approach. I understand all the emotions in this thread but the societal problem is summed up by Pompous Git's post admitting to carrying a knife for protection. Clearly outrage etc only applies to "the kids", immigrants etc not the more accepted parts of society i.e. I carry a knife for protection, they carry one for threat. Bull****. Should the focus of outrage depend on whether you are an inner city kid or a forum grandee. Will flashing a knife deter someone else carrying on? The answer is no.

Also, if you carry a weapon then you also need to be prepared for it to be used against you - are you well practiced?

And, by the way, it's always water first then milk for anyone making tea. Making tea (as with posh coffee) is an extraction process so heat matters. By contrast, instant coffee is a dissolution process so benefits from not using boiling water to minimise degradation. One should also consider whether deoxygenated water (i.e. pre-boiled) is better or worst than freshly filling the kettle. I had a friend who did a PhD on the kinetics of making tea paid for by Unilever.
 

CarpCatcher86

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I don't support a liberal attitude, life should not be easy for prisoners - hard, not inhumane - make things unpleasant and provide a return to the public purse would be my approach. I understand all the emotions in this thread but the societal problem is summed up by Pompous Git's post admitting to carrying a knife for protection. Clearly outrage etc only applies to "the kids", immigrants etc not the more accepted parts of society i.e. I carry a knife for protection, they carry one for threat. Bull****. Should the focus of outrage depend on whether you are an inner city kid or a forum grandee. Will flashing a knife deter someone else carrying on? The answer is no.

Also, if you carry a weapon then you also need to be prepared for it to be used against you - are you well practiced?

And, by the way, it's always water first then milk for anyone making tea. Making tea (as with posh coffee) is an extraction process so heat matters. By contrast, instant coffee is a dissolution process so benefits from not using boiling water to minimise degradation. One should also consider whether deoxygenated water (i.e. pre-boiled) is better or worst than freshly filling the kettle. I had a friend who did a PhD on the kinetics of making tea paid for by Unilever.
I don't think anything should be easy for anyone who has broken the law. I have always said that if and when the sh1t hits the fan, I would rather take my chances and try to stop or detur someone committing a crime rather than let them do as they please and somehow hope that the police catch them some time later.
If you catch someone breaking in to your house shed or car, do you stop them or maybe apprehend them, or do you simply let them take what they want then give the police the best description you can and a list of stolen property in the hope they are later caught and your property is returned?
My thought is that I would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six, but if someone gets in to your house, armed or not, are you really just going to sit back and let them take whatever they please? Granted with the way the law works in this country, you would end up in more trouble for stopping someone stealing your property that the person trying to steal from you. I know a few coppers and have said to them many times, rightly or wrongly, if anyone got in my house they would not be leaving under their own steam. A few replied by saying, to be honest I would do the same, but that isn't a very smart thing to say or do. But if you think about it, how many times do you think a burgular would tell someone which house they were going to break in to? Can you imaging a burgular going to the police saying they had been beaten up after someone caught them breaking in to their house? Obviously they wouldn't put it quite like that. No doubt they would tell the police, if they told them at all, they were walking down the street, minding their own business, harming no one, when a man jumped out of no where and beat them senseless. They would lie to the police and deny all accusations, so what is stopping the likes of us from doing the same if we encounter such scumbags?
 

Pompous git

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I don't support a liberal attitude, life should not be easy for prisoners - hard, not inhumane - make things unpleasant and provide a return to the public purse would be my approach. I understand all the emotions in this thread but the societal problem is summed up by Pompous Git's post admitting to carrying a knife for protection. Clearly outrage etc only applies to "the kids", immigrants etc not the more accepted parts of society i.e. I carry a knife for protection, they carry one for threat. Bull****. Should the focus of outrage depend on whether you are an inner city kid or a forum grandee. Will flashing a knife deter someone else carrying on? The answer is no.

Also, if you carry a weapon then you also need to be prepared for it to be used against you - are you well practiced?

And, by the way, it's always water first then milk for anyone making tea. Making tea (as with posh coffee) is an extraction process so heat matters. By contrast, instant coffee is a dissolution process so benefits from not using boiling water to minimise degradation. One should also consider whether deoxygenated water (i.e. pre-boiled) is better or worst than freshly filling the kettle. I had a friend who did a PhD on the kinetics of making tea paid for by Unilever.
Louis D, not sure what point you are trying to make, I will explain my stance.

Whilst carrying out my bailiff duties I found a small lockknife. Expensive looking with a hardwood handle and small but viscous blade. I
doubt if a copper would make a song and dance if he searched me.

Example, I`m walking to my car its two in the morning and some distance away three scrotes are making their way toward me. Oi, got
a fag? One of them said, no good me saying I don`t smoke it was obvious what their intentions were and I hurried to my car and safety
but it was a close thing. As a railwayman often in car parks or walking home in the early hours you need your wits about you.

I am well aware the knife could be used against me but the toerag would have to pull it out of his own throat first.

I am not trying to sound hard, I am not a big bloke and I am not a tough bloke but I am not in the slightest sentimental. I would stab
someone trying to attack me as soon as look at them.

Right or wrong my little knife does not make me invincible but it does make me feel safer.

If authority was allowed to do it`s job we would not be having this conversation. We are too soft have been for decades. Liberal type
attitudes are for political children and fools that live in dreamland along with anti establishment types that think criminals should be
cosseted because they are in someway downtrodden and therefore their actions are society`s fault.

If anyone thinks the last paragraph is wrong and the ranting of some old gammon then try reading the law and order part of the green
party election manifesto. You will not know wether to laugh or cry, people actually believe stuff in this ridiculous document. The labour
counterpart is much the same, dog help us.
 

frankg

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I have had it with keeping thoughts to myself, of having to tiptoe around the issues and be careful what I say. Political Correctness seems to be another way of saying “Lets not talk about the real issues”, “Let's not have an honest, open and frank discussion as adults where we can say what we are feeling without rancour, anger or judgement”. So I am going to speak my mind. If that makes me a bad person, if that leads to me being castigated and categorised than so be it. But before anyone judges me let me say I don't think I am alone with the thoughts I express.

Shamima Begum. To me this case represents all that is wrong with British society, or at least the PC brigade part of it. Also what is wrong with those who seek to change or denigrate my country.

I find it ironic that people like her don't like this country to the extent of actually leaving and engaging with a stated enemy of it. But when things go pear shaped she suddenly wants to live here and avail herself of British Justice. Why do people who hate Britain suddenly find that they want to use our our justice system (+ healthcare, education etc.) and not that of the countries they love?

On that theme why do immigrants into this, a traditionally Christian country, want to change it to suit their beliefs. If you want to live in a country that is based on another religion then go and live there. Don't try and change ours. You are guests, welcome to become part of British society and culture with its history and values. You are welcome to follow your own religion, we are a tolerant nation. But accept that we are what we are, what our history has made us. We have created a land of peace and prosperity following our values, not yours. If this land is attractive to you then understand why it is so and be grateful.

Black Lives Matter. Of course they do, all lives matter. Racism is wrong. Slavery was wrong. But we cannot change history.

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

There is one certain way to reduce if not eradicate racism and that is for the black community, and others, to fully integrate into society. Forget the Uncle Tom mentality. Integrating does not mean being subservient or joining the enemy but does mean that all races should be represented in enough numbers to remove any chance of institutional racism. Join the police, join the armed forces, the fire brigade and any other organisation where ethnic minorities are under represented.

Of course this means education has to be valued. We know as fact that, generally, Asian kids do better at school than white kids and that black kids do worst of all. I cannot believe that this is an inherently racially based result. I cannot believe that Asian kids are more intelligent than white and both more than black. No more so than rich kids being more intelligent than kids born into a less wealthy background. Yet when the equality laws were first introduced educational requirements had to be removed from job adverts because such a hurdle was seen as biased against black kids. In this way we have officially acknowledged that black kids are less intelligent. If the BLM and equality movements are serious then they should be asking for educational qualifications to be reinstated. Then they need to tell their communities that they need to step up and show that they are as intelligent as any other race. That education is to be valued, not despised, that a lack of education is not a badge of honour. Role models need to extol the virtues and benefits of gaining a good education.

Slavery was wrong. But as I say we cannot remove it from our world history. Let us not forget that to some degree slavery was enabled by black Africans selling other black Africans to slave traders. It is easy to point the finger at the white slave trader. But somewhat uncomfortable to acknowledge the part played by black Africans.

So what do we do to put things right? One outrageous proposal might be to reverse the slave trade and give free passage back to Africa to any descendant of a slave who wants it. Let them voluntarily go where, without the slave trade, they may have been born. Does racism exist where everyone is of the same skin colour?

I rather suspect there will be few takers of such an offer. An acid test? Slavery was wrong. But it has enabled millions of descendants to be born and raised in a free, prosperous nation, be it US or UK, where by the sweat of your own brow you can achieve your potential. Where you have a judicial system that is the envy of many billions of people around the world and healthcare second to none. The enforced sacrifices made by the original slaves has meant that their descendants enjoy a lifestyle that may be unattainable in their “home” nation.

Knife and gun crime. Yet another stabbing report, this one from the Thorpe Park amusement park has my blood boiling. It is about time we stopped being nice and introduced sentences that are a real deterrent to carrying offensive weapons. How attractive would it be if carrying a knife capable of inflicting severe injury or death brought you a minimum sentence of ten years (served, not shortened for good behaviour). If using the knife got you locked up for twenty five years.

Similar if not more severe for firearms.

And drug dealers (possession with intent to supply). Death penalty as in Singapore? 25 years minimum?

If you do not want to be treated aggressively when arrested by the police then accept that arrest without becoming violent. Violent resistance means the police have to use extreme measures to subdue you. I have no sympathy for anyone injured while resisting arrest. Neither should the courts, politicians or the rest of society.

And as for Human Rights, these, apart from the very basics, have been surrendered by an individual as soon as they cross the line into criminality. If you chose to harm society (humanity) by your actions then you have no right to expect that your individual rights overbear the rights of humanity to a peaceful and safe life.
Well said Neil......can’t find anything in there that I disagree with!!
If I was in charge of this country....ohhhh, how I’d change it!!
👍
 

frankg

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Black lives do not matter to black people, unless there is a white person involved and then they are up in arms and protesting.
Nobody also seems to mention that there are over 500,000 more cases of black on white crime than white on black. Do us white people tear down statues of black people and run around screaming racism?
Spot on CC 👍
 

Dave

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On a similar theme, a friend of mine some years back was walking late at night in Harrogate on the way home when two scrotes walked past him hurriedly.
A short while later one of the scrotes stepped out in front of him and demanded money. The other scrote appeared behind him.

Now said friend is over 6ft tall but slim, nice enough lad, pleasant to talk to, is also a Black belt 2nd Dan in one martial art and a Black Belt 3rd Dan instructor in another :D
Moments later scrote no1 was unconscious on the floor, scrote no2 was legging it down the road, and said friend nealt over scrote no1, rifled his pockets and releived him of a fiver, just so he (scrote) knew what it felt like to be mugged :D

Should said friend have announced to the scrotes that night what was about to have happend? Just to stay on the right side of the law that is.

(If you are trained to a level in martial arts you are legally not supposed to use your training on the street - or at least that is what the law used to be)
 

CarpCatcher86

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On a similar theme, a friend of mine some years back was walking late at night in Harrogate on the way home when two scrotes walked past him hurriedly.
A short while later one of the scrotes stepped out in front of him and demanded money. The other scrote appeared behind him.

Now said friend is over 6ft tall but slim, nice enough lad, pleasant to talk to, is also a Black belt 2nd Dan in one martial art and a Black Belt 3rd Dan instructor in another :D
Moments later scrote no1 was unconscious on the floor, scrote no2 was legging it down the road, and said friend nealt over scrote no1, rifled his pockets and releived him of a fiver, just so he (scrote) knew what it felt like to be mugged :D

Should said friend have announced to the scrotes that night what was about to have happend? Just to stay on the right side of the law that is.

(If you are trained to a level in martial arts you are legally not supposed to use your training on the street - or at least that is what the law used to be)
I thought if you were trained to fight, you had to warn whoever you were about to fight three times. If you have warned someone three times and said idiot still doesn't listen then feel free to kick seven shades of sh1t out of said idiot. Load of man boy plums if you ask me. A scroat wouldn't warn you he was about to attack you, just for the sake of it or to steal something from you, so why should you have to warn them that a foot or fist is about to replace their nose?
 

frankg

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I've always been an advocate of hanging, even at my middle school we had lengthy discussions on crime and punishment.. i was always the odd one out because i would sit on the "capital punishment" side whereas all the others were on the prison/rehabilitation side.

Next time we see you, ask D about my letter to Downing street, i wrote offering my services free of charge and even told them i'll buy the rope myself, i've explained about the fundraising idea, explained about the chances of reoffending, explained about the savings made on keeping prisoners, explained about the chances of escape the lot...... i've written the same kind of letter to every PM since John Major, i've only ever recieved 2 replies, one from Majors office and one from Browns office.

One of my brother-in-laws ancestors was a well known hangman 👍
 

Total

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On a similar theme, a friend of mine some years back was walking late at night in Harrogate on the way home when two scrotes walked past him hurriedly.
A short while later one of the scrotes stepped out in front of him and demanded money. The other scrote appeared behind him.

Now said friend is over 6ft tall but slim, nice enough lad, pleasant to talk to, is also a Black belt 2nd Dan in one martial art and a Black Belt 3rd Dan instructor in another :D
Moments later scrote no1 was unconscious on the floor, scrote no2 was legging it down the road, and said friend nealt over scrote no1, rifled his pockets and releived him of a fiver, just so he (scrote) knew what it felt like to be mugged :D

Should said friend have announced to the scrotes that night what was about to have happend? Just to stay on the right side of the law that is.

(If you are trained to a level in martial arts you are legally not supposed to use your training on the street - or at least that is what the law used to be)
What did you spend the 'fiver' on?:unsure:;)
 

CarpCatcher86

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One of my brother-in-laws ancestors was a well known hangman 👍
The only plausible argument I heard against the death penalty was that killing people is wrong, and to show you how wrong it is to kill people we are going to kill you. Sounds counterintuitive I know. On the plus side if you kill a killer, they won't kill again and they won't cost the tax payers a fortune.
 
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