Fox hunting!...are we next?

Status
Not open for further replies.

waxlion1

Regular member
Joined
Jan 9, 2002
Messages
399
Fox Hunting!...are we next?


In light of the recent decision from the Scottish parliament to ban fox hunting, please remember that the UK as a whole will be next to ban this barbaric sport.

We as anglers, be it specimen, match or pleasure will fall into the spotlight as the next target for the anti blood sport lobbyers.

If we like it or not, the whole of our beloved sport as we call it must at some time come under pressure to curb the way in which we spend our leisure time and catch fish for sport.

Although I do not agree with the banning of fishing, comparisons will be made by some quarters between angling and fox hunting.

The fox hunters thought that there sport would never succumb to the harassment by anti blood sport campaigners, but they where wrong lets not fall into the same trap of thinking it will never happen to me.

What are your views on this subject?

I better get a tin hat as the flack may well fly with this one....






Waxlion1
hello.gif
 

Newt

'Lures Rule!!'
Joined
Jan 19, 2002
Messages
1,385
"Fox Hunting!...are we next?"

Maybe not next but soon I am afraid. An angling ban may not work but I would certainly expect to see a try made. And said "try" might be successful if the UK angling "community" does not take steps to become a community rather than a bunch of folks who just want to fish and not hear about it plus a large number of groups with their own agendas.

A possible compromise might be to regulate UK angling like they do in Germany. Catch and Keep only. If you ain't gonna kill & eat it, don't fish for it. Now that is a horrible thought for you.

Newt Vail
 

Ziptrev

05/10/01 - 18/10/02
In Memoriam
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
1,482
Whilst we ever continue to use words like "Barbaric" to describe anothers pursuit,a pursuit that has been enjoyed by a large number of people through Generations! then we lose the right to complain,if the majority disagree with OUR chosen sport and genuinely see it as Barbaric themselves and decide to vote for a ban against it,
Ole Newt is chuckling away with his German quotation, because he knows how passionately I loathe the situation in Germany, Where, because of their particular mentality, they have brought in as a COMPROMISE in Power sharing, the catch for food only laws, that are ludicrous, unscientific, but a sop and trade off to the Green and AR parties over there.
Like Newt says, Yes we will definitely LOSE if Anglers do not speak with 1 voice, AND you cannot be divisive within your own discipline! so like it or not, by supporting the live bait ban in Cumbria, your precious conscience sop that you are a 'kind' Angler, will mean that you will have agreed to the 1st of many bans to come (By the way, it's still a choice for others to livebait if they wish. It's NOT COMPULSORY, banning is NO choice)
Until finally you are left saying 'I never thought they would go that far'

Furthermore, I have no problem in supporting the RETENTION of Fox Hunting personally. In my opinion , repeat IMHO ,being the product of an East Anglian farming Community (NO fox hunting in my area, arable farm land to valuable to allow the horses to gallop across grain fields),I have helped Shoot and set traps near hen-houses,for the Vermin (Classified) that is the truth of the pretty red 'Brer' Fox.
The fox is an animal in which nature has installed a 'blood lust' factor and if it has the opportunity, it will destroy all it can, far more than it can possibly eat! in a killing frenzy.
However, it does not DESERVE the cruelty that WILL be inflicted on it if hunting is banned.
This cruelty will be from farmers shooting at it with inadequete weapons , using cartridges intended for small crows/game birds etc, slow poisoning from laced food.
Tethered in traps , it will face the old choice of biting its leg off, or starving and many other tribulations caused by its new found 'Protection'

It should be patently obvious to people that the newly formed pact between the ACA for Anglers and the Countryside Alliance is simply , because of the insidious bans that are cleverly being imposed by this Government,not because the majority of Anglers support hunting! and do not PLEASE dismiss the live-bait ban as insignificant.
This 'small ban' is the MOST important of all, designed to act as a test on Anglers Unity, as we are by far the biggest of the field sports lobby (and sadly , the most complacent, divided, self centred and uninformed)
Consider, Blair promised to ban fox hunting back in '97 , He hasn't, (Bill read out of Parliament)
He has been criticised over Foot & Mouth and loss of Tourism in hard hit areas like the Lake District!
So, How can he possibly vote for a livebaiting ban in that area, that will further hit Tourism?

Because a bigger deal is on the cards.

Ducking under the issue directly, He has influenced poor little Scotland to take on the 'hot potato'.So Scotland have passed the law banning fox-hunting.
It is being challenged already by the Countryside Alliance in the European Parliament under the 'Contravention of Human Rights', but I cannot hold out much hope there in light of the European situation1 The Jackboot mentality loves stopping people doing what they want.
But, if it gets immediately thrown out and the ban upheld, watch our Bambi move quickly then and of course , Don't be surprised if Scotlands part of the deal is something we in England wouldnt have thought our PM would ever have agreed too!

Similarly, WHEN Angling becomes the last field sport to be banned, the trade off in Britains (or TBs) favour from the European Greens, may be quite a surprise!

If these cynical Politicians , regularly swallow their principals, to vote for something that they personally do not agree with , isnt it time WE started to COMPROMISE ourselves to maintain the Greater prize of freedom for Anglers in Britain!
Can you happily look at your Grandchild and say
'Well yes, I went along and voted to ban fox hunting, more because I hate Hoo-Rah Henry's and because I'm envious of their money and even because I get satisfaction out of stopping people I dislike doing something they want even though it never affected me!!! So that is why you can't go fishing any more!'


So, If you feel the Sport that doesn't happen to suit your taste, or you cant afford,or you'd love to see squashed out of the pleasure you get from spoiling other peoples pursuits, vote to ban it.
OR Join it and try and influence changes for the better by working inside it. It's easy!, for a few Quid, you can join the ACA, and email your problem with the Countryside Alliance to them.
At the end of the day, the Alliance will be FORCED themselves, to moderate hunting or face extinction as 1 by 1 their sports get banned.

Most people I talk to don't even truly know one tenth of what goes on in hunting anyway, but have been stirred by the latet 'Report' from a Green supporting, advert selling,commercial TV station!

When Hunting does get banned, Please volunteer to help the RSPCA put down the 1000s of surplus hounds that will be destroyed as they will be classed as 'imprinted' and unable to be trusted as house pets.
Please also accept an increase in taxes to cover the Unemployment boom in kennel maids,huntsmen and all the attendant redundant personnel!

If a guy says to you, 'Dont feed too much Groundbait in your swim at the start of a session, because you can add more later, but YOU CANT TAKE IT OUT!'
You would accept that as logic.
All I am saying, is do not BAN anything, cos you can change it later, BUT not if it's not there any more.
LOL I'm going away for a long week-end now! cya Monday

Trev

PS
Today I again increased my personal best Pike , just by 2oz's! using a dead bait herring! (Poor herring , killed just to feed my sadistic desire to cause pain to a harmless Pike)
Whilst in the process of unhooking, the Bailiff came and demanded my address, so he could write out a ticket! Losing concentration, the fish struggled and I got bitten again!!!! (I always do lol)
Wiping the blood away I asked him to go away!
I then continued, with help, quickly removed the hook, posed for the Photo and rushed to the water to see (With Great satisfaction) that lovely fish swim slowly away.
We caused each other pain! I had tremendous pleasure out of catching her, playing her,seeing her helpless on the unhooking mat, with all her glorious colours revealed AND those teeth!!! Impressive aged teeth a Dog would have been proud of.
What did she get out of it! Taken from her natural environment, betrayed by my devious use of a bait designed to attract her to a basic need of satisfying her hunger. She never even got the meal!
Small revenge from her bite? She didnt even realise and I loved her none the less for her temper.

Oh! Yes people,
I care and would no more hurt her, more than necessary, than I would torture a fox BUT I cannot justify what I did to her other than highlighting that the pleasure I received made me want to do it all over again!

Will she remember? Happily I firmly believe not. I like to think she is already fed from some other meal, content and with no recollection of tody's incident already. God in his wisdom, gave fish a very low memory span.(IMHO)

Will I? Oh yes, even without the photo, I shall happily remember her,Often!, just as I remember my wild River Trent Common of 21 and 1/2 lbs caught on lobworm on 21 Dec 1981!!!
20 years and a vivid memory still!

Perhaps if I rode a wonderful horse at 30mph over obstacles that caused an exhileration as we soared over them and felt the wind in our faces, then, Just perhaps then,I could understand fox hunting!
I cant, but to deny another the same sort of memory I will have of todays fish, seems by far the greater cruelty to me, to deny a fellow HUHAN being, whether Nobleman,Landed Gentry or Commoner!

Incidentally, Dave paid the Bailiff!!! (I kept the ticket to prove it!)
Thanks mate! another great memory.

Trev



Ziptrev
I do NOT BELIEVE it

Edited by - Ziptrev on 15 February 2002 06:12:50 AM

Edited by - Ziptrev on 15 February 2002 06:28:39 AM

Edited by - Ziptrev on 15 February 2002 06:33:55 AM
 

esox.20

04/11/01 - 12/10/15
In Memoriam
Joined
Nov 4, 2001
Messages
1
If were not next then it will be the shooting lobby first angling second. I agree with all Trev has said but wish to add, what will happen to all the horses?... will dog meat come down in price or will the export market show a healthy surplus.
I have heard that the bill passed in Scotlad is badly written and flawed so maybe just maybe they will beable to get it over turned.
Let me say I am not pro hunting but neither am I anti hunting. I agree that we needed to join the countryside alliance if only to prove to goverment, that there is an organised body that will support our love and right to use the countryside.


chill out go fishing
 

Trogg

the bouncer
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 11, 2001
Messages
27,696
We must also remember that a lot of people who are involved in the hunt will now be out of work & out of home.

Some of those that have just lost their jobs will also lose their homes because they live in "tied" house/cottages/bungalows, which means as they are no longer working for the hunt they can't live in the homes that are provided for them.

I have never agreed with hunting the fox in the way they do (which has caused my uncle & me to stop speaking cos he goes fox hunting) for the simple reason that it is a waste , the fox is torn to shreds at the end & thats it.

I have trapped foxes & i have used dogs on the lamp but the fox has always been used at the end with its coat being sold & its meat being boiled & fed to the dogs.


Will we be next????
No-one & nothing will stop me from fishing while i can still breathe & get to the waters edge.

Alan
You've just been moderated
 

Geoff P

The MOGerator
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,424
The fox hunting issue has been bandied around Parliament for the past twenty years. Labour politicians have been attempting to bring in legislation on Private Members Bills for as long as I can remember. These Bills were always failing, as opposing MPs would just talk them out.

Tony Blair made the fox hunting issue a manifesto pledge just to keep on the right side of the purist labour members, who felt that the Labour Party were going down the Tory paths. It was always interesting to note that the most vociferous voices against fox hunting were those who lived in towns.

The Labour Party in Scotland was chosen to lead the fight against Fox hunting. I wouldnt be at all surprised if Wales were asked to pass a limited Act in their Assembly next. This would take the interest away from Westminster.

Although MPs have been promised a free vote in the House of Parliament we know that the term Free Vote doesnt exist in Bambis government. You are either for him or against him. It appears that when a candidate wants to be selected for a parliamentary seat for the Labour Party he is told that although the people elect you, you are there to serve the party first.

The worry I have is: are the public being told the truth about fox hunting? We have all heard the gruesome tales of a fox being mauled to death by hounds after a long chase. How many people who have heard that tale have also heard or seen the destruction a skulk of foxes can do to a chicken farm, or newborn lambs in a field. Do you know how many foxes are killed by the hunts throughout Britain? Less than 10% of those hunted for. As it is the majority of foxes now live in cities, where it is easier to scavenge for food.

Personally I do not agree with hunting for foxes by hounds, but that is a personal opinion. I have always believed that if my opinion differs to somebody elses it is my right to try and talk him/her round, or I can sit in the background and ignore it. I can remember when antis injured a horse with darts at an anti foxhunting rally. It appears that horses arent as well loved as foxes or it was their fault for hunting!!! It does appear that the antis have given up the talking bit and brought in legislation to get their way. This has got to be a warning to the fishing community.

It is no good just sitting on the bank thinking the antis will go away. Having had one victory they will be spreading their wings to find another good cause to fight for. The cruel sport of fishing is already on their list. I can recall the television scenes of a match in Birmingham where the antis, or as I would rather call the motley crew involved, the unemployable, unwashed sad band of brothers gave as their reason for disrupting the match as fishing was cruel to maggots. (Personally I have never heard a maggot complain so I cannot comment)

On the Romney Marshes in Kent people are still saying that the lead fishermen use is harming the swans. And this from an area that has a big duck shoot every so often. Of course the lead from shotgun cartridges doesnt, for some strange reason, affect the Swans!!! Even the litter left behind by the shooting fraternity isnt noticed.

We have to be seen as whiter than white. Even the smallest piece of litter left on the bank is ammunition for the antis. We cannot afford to be complacent. The different bodies in our sport have to speak as one.

I am scared that before I know it, the joy I have had from catching roach etc will not be available to my 5-year-old grandson. Will he know the joy of early summer morning trips to the lake? The thrill of the float dipping gently under the surface, a quick lift of the rod and the fish is on. Never mind the size, a fish is a fish is a fish.

Will his generation be the water watchers? Will he be looking out for pollution and other environmental issues or will he be another child forced to get all his enjoyment and entertainment from computer games and television? God I hope not.



thumbsup.gif Geoff
 

waxlion1

Regular member
Joined
Jan 9, 2002
Messages
399
Strong words by one and all!

Please don't misunderstand me, I think you should be able to do what ever you like "with in reason" which includes fox hunting, but it doesnt mean I have to do it, or like the fact that other people hunt for foxes.

All I am saying is that "WE WILL BE NEXT" maybe not today or tomorrow but one day as sure as bears s*^t in the woods it will be our turn!

Waxlion1
hello.gif
 

AlexR

Regular member
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
127
ok well i did write tons on this last night, but it didnt get through and was deleted so i just say this:
ziptrev has got it right and obviously knows the true facts about the fox and hunting.
Please don't misunderstand me, I think you should be able to do what ever you like "with in reason" which includes fox hunting, but it doesnt mean I have to do it, or like the fact that other people hunt for foxes.
that is a good comment also, you dont have to agree with it or do it, but thats no reason to stop others doing it. if you try and stop people hunting then you are a hypocrit for saying the antis shouldnt try to ban fishing.
quite honesty we couldnt defend our sport to an honest vegetarian, but, theres still no reason we should stop cos others disagree
FREEDOM OF CHOICE!
(thanks for saving me some time with youre comments ziptrev )



;)
 

Dave

Red Leader
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 8, 2001
Messages
59,956
Hi Alex,

If you are writing a lengthy post here's a tip for you, as you write occasionally press the Ctrl and A keys on your keyboard followed by Ctrl and C. This will copy your post to the the clipboard of your PC. Should you make a mistake and delete what you have written, simply click in the 'Message' box and press Ctrl and V which will paste your post back in


Dave
 

Geoff P

The MOGerator
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,424
Dave,

I find the easiest way is to first write it up in a word processing programme, I am lucky I have full Office 2000 Professionsal, then copy and paste it across as and when you need it.

No worrys then and you also have spell and grammar checking.

thumbsup.gif Geoff
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top