Foul hooking Carp

Barbelcatcher

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In a local match scene, 1 member, I am reliably informed, seems always to finish on the podium, but a good 20% - 30% of his fish are foul hooked, whereas others who fish in the same matches may only fould hook 2, rather than 10. The 8 foul hooked fished often contribute to the higher weight.

Is this because:
a) His feeding attracts more fish into his swim therefore he stands a higher chance of foul hooking more - but why in such high numbers/percentage than others fishing.?
b) is he fishing with an offset or slightly outpointed hook, thereby more likely to lodge under a scale, when the he strikes at a dip in the float as the fish cruises by?
c) is fishing with a larger hook and laying on?

Thanking you for your insight into this, which I am at a loss to understand.
 

Sam Vimes

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I'm not familiar enough with commie match fishing to comment on the reasons why. However, since when have foul hooked fish counted in matches? I was under the distinct impression that standard match rules would discount all foul hooked fish, which should be immediately returned to the water by the angler. Have such rules been dropped/relaxed for commie matches?
 

RedRidingHood

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I'm not familiar enough with commie match fishing to comment on the reasons why. However, since when have foul hooked fish counted in matches? I was under the distinct impression that standard match rules would discount all foul hooked fish, which should be immediately returned to the water by the angler. Have such rules been dropped/relaxed for commie matches?

Wait, thats a thing?

Every match I've ever fished has allowed foul hooked fish to be bagged, I've never heard of any matches not allowing foul hooked fish. I think the problem with this rule is that providing no match officials were standing directly behind when you caught the fish everybody would be throwing foul hookers in their nets regardless of the rules.

Possibly just not a thing in my area though.
 

Sam Vimes

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Wait, thats a thing?

I could be wrong, but I believe it used to be. However, my match fishing days pre-date the significant shift to match commies.
It's certainly still the case that foul hooked fish can't legally be kept under current law "In England and Wales you must not: keep fish you’ve foul hooked (caught with a hook puncturing anywhere but the fish’s mouth or throat) - these must be returned alive." I was under the impression that standard match rules were born out of that law.

I certainly wouldn't count any foul hooked fish as a personal best and I distinctly remember fishing matches and returning the very occasional foul hooker straight to the water in matches. I remember others doing the same thing.
 

G0zzer2

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NFA match rules back in the 1960s, when I was first matchfishing, said that foulhooked fish should be returned. But foulhooked fish have been allowed to be counted under NFA and now Angling Trust rules for decades now. Nothing to do with fishing commercials.

Quite right too, as it's not possible to police the rule. However deliberately foulhooking fish is, I believe, against the model match rules (and it's illegal anyway).
 

ukzero1

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Releasing foul hooked used to be the norm and done as a matter of etiquette. Sadly though, nowadays, it's all blown out the window.
 

Neil ofthe nene

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MMRs only say that anglers must hook, play and land their own fish. No mention of returning foul hooked fish.

Impossible to police. And as we all know, it is much harder to land a foulhooker.

As for an angler potentially foulhooking on purpose, or fishing in a way that makes foulhookers more likely then I have little idea how you would prove that. I do know that when fishing corn skin I get many more foulhooked fish than when using heavier baits. Nothing intentional because it takes longer to land foulhookers and there is more likelihood of losing the fish anyway meaning wasted time, effort and potentially rigs.

I have no idea about law but I have never fished a match on any type of venue where foulhookers had to be returned. In matches all fish are returned. So the "law" is complied with. I do know that an old poacher's trick was to tie a small piece of white cloth to a treble hook and then use this to purposefully foulhook fish like salmon. I am guessing it is this practice the stated law seeks to outlaw.
 

Dusty

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In a local match scene, 1 member, I am reliably informed, seems always to finish on the podium, but a good 20% - 30% of his fish are foul hooked, whereas others who fish in the same matches may only fould hook 2, rather than 10. The 8 foul hooked fished often contribute to the higher weight.

Is this because:
a) His feeding attracts more fish into his swim therefore he stands a higher chance of foul hooking more - but why in such high numbers/percentage than others fishing.?
b) is he fishing with an offset or slightly outpointed hook, thereby more likely to lodge under a scale, when the he strikes at a dip in the float as the fish cruises by?
c) is fishing with a larger hook and laying on?

Thanking you for your insight into this, which I am at a loss to understand.

Difficult to say however it’s likely it’s down to him feeding too much and having too many fish in your peg.
Foul hookers are a nightmare in a match scenario, often they will come off after trashing through all your swims.
 

Sam Vimes

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foulhooked fish have been allowed to be counted under NFA and now Angling Trust rules for decades now. Nothing to do with fishing commercials.

It's a good two decades since I last fished any kind of match. I doubt I'll be doing so again. Foul hooked fish being counted does nothing to tempt me back.

Quite right too, as it's not possible to police the rule. However deliberately foulhooking fish is, I believe, against the model match rules (and it's illegal anyway).

That is absolutely true. I remember foulhooked fish being a bone of contention way back. However, the incidence of foul hooking was relatively small compared to what it is on the average match commie. I can understand why they would do away with the rule, but it's a shame that they have had to.

I have no idea about law but I have never fished a match on any type of venue where foulhookers had to be returned. In matches all fish are returned. So the "law" is complied with.

I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise, just offering a potential source of the foulhooked fish not counting rule in match fishing. Perhaps the rule was done away with way before I was born, but matches I fished as a younger man definitely did not allow foul hooked fish to count. I can only assume that some organizations persisted with the rule after it was done away with on a national level.
 
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rudd

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What counts as foul hooked?
Had several Perch lately where they are hooked on outside of mouth, I.e. hooked in lips but with hook point in inside of mouth
I think they took bait, gave indication on float and spat bait out and turned as I struck.
Hooked in scales, belly, fins etc I get.
 

Dusty

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What counts as foul hooked?
Had several Perch lately where they are hooked on outside of mouth, I.e. hooked in lips but with hook point in inside of mouth
I think they took bait, gave indication on float and spat bait out and turned as I struck.
Hooked in scales, belly, fins etc I get.

I’d class a foul hooker as anything you have hooked not in the mouth. Most of my foul hookers tend to be in the tail or underside of the fish.
 

Gwillim

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As to the foul hooking of the fish I would imagine that it is due to number of fish and location of bait / target area, when fishing a commercial, fishing hard up against a feature often prevents more foul hookers as the fish have less room / directions to come at the bait from, the depth he is fishing at may also play a part in the number he is foul hooking as swirling fish can lift the bait up pulling down on the float at which he strikes and hooks the fish not in the mouth, but one thing I would say is that he is obviously getting the feeding right if he is getting that many fish into his swim foul hooking them and still managing to keep them there and continue catching them.
 

Dusty

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As to the foul hooking of the fish I would imagine that it is due to number of fish and location of bait / target area, when fishing a commercial, fishing hard up against a feature often prevents more foul hookers as the fish have less room / directions to come at the bait from, the depth he is fishing at may also play a part in the number he is foul hooking as swirling fish can lift the bait up pulling down on the float at which he strikes and hooks the fish not in the mouth, but one thing I would say is that he is obviously getting the feeding right if he is getting that many fish into his swim foul hooking them and still managing to keep them there and continue catching them.

I’d say the opposite to be honest, if he’s getting that many foul hookers on a regular basis then I’d say he is feeding wrong.
 

Gwillim

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He's obviously bringing the fish up in the water I would say but not adjusting his rig to match I would assume, so for me he is feeding correctly because if I was fishing a match on a commie I would be want to be catching them up in the water and either hard against a feature or down the margin again where I can get them hard against the bank / reeds. Just my opinion.
 

Oldmech

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Why don't you ask him how come he foul hooks so many fish if indeed members have seen him do it? I would.
 
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