For the love of all that is holy, carp.

OldTaff

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I love my local carp puddle - as much as I’d like a lake stuffed to the brim with a dozen species I’m happy to be on a bank with a tip twitching or float dipping and if it’s carp after carp on the end then so be it
 

Wrongfoot

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I have some issues with fishing for non native species pellet reared and fed at the expense of the marine environment. I prefer to catch native species, as it seems less contrived and artificial. I still fish carp and stockie rainbows on fly from time to time. It's a preference not a dogma.

An unpolluted water with heathy native unstocked fish is something that few anglers could get to for centuries until recent environmental legislation. Seems a privilege, shame we're backsliding with pollution and water quality.
 
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solwood

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Fish marsh farm, virtually no king carp

Some amazing crucian available on day ticket and membership
 

MartinWY

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I'd love to know where these venues are that no matter what you do you end up catching endless carp :ROFLMAO:
The latest one on the list is Risby Folly mixed lake, the main one. Appreciate the sarcasm but it nevertheless is true. Can't call it targeting carp if you're fishing waggler mid water with double red maggot. Not that it mattered, tried cage feeder, pole, hybrid feeder, various hookbaits. All the same result.

Chap next to me was targeting them and was catching about the same stamp of fish. Guy opposite had carp too and I think one perch, like me. Maybe it was where I was fishing, not sure, but this isn't the only time this has happened, hence the thread and it appears I'm not entirely alone in this experience!
 

MartinWY

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Possibly. However, the simple reality these days is that if you don't have either plenty of carp, or pretty big carp for the area, an awful lot of anglers won't give the water a second glance.

If you can rustle up enough people that think differently then you've got the beginnings of a club, syndicate or commercial venture. Based on my own experience of a mixed fishery syndicate, I hope you have better luck persuading non-carpers to put their money where their mouths are.
Would you mind elaborating on your experience with the mixed fishery?

I have to admit, it has crossed my mind to look into creating a small fishery, not for profit, just because it would be an interesting project.
 

MartinWY

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Just try a river mate. Solves the problem in one and they really aren’t that complicated to fish in the grand scheme of things 👍🏻
I intend to, but first I'll have to work out how to travel light! To be honest I tend to take a ton of tackle when on stillwaters, half of which I dont use in a given session.
 

Total

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Just try a river mate. Solves the problem in one and they really aren’t that complicated to fish in the grand scheme of things 👍🏻
I used to think the above, but got seriously fed up with the sport being so inconsistent on my rivers Thames, Medway, Loddon, Kennet etc etc, not to mention the floods, water extraction, boats, public etc etc etc....... Waste of time these days.....
 

JayD

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^^ :giggle:....Was you born with your own milk crate Jay?:blahblah::p;)
No Mark, not even a soap box, more like a tackle box, I think that's why I'm so passionate about angling. If you think I'm bad now, then you should have seen and heard me back in the day before I mellowed with age. 😄

Over the last 25+ years, I've spoken to anglers, club committees, fishery owners/landowners, EA officers and officials, and anyone who would listen, and some who didn't want to😉, about why they purposely overstock waters. Not one has come up with an answer that didn't include either financial profit, and/or because anglers want easier fishing, leading to big weight potential. Hardly a word about the possible environmental impact on waters by escapees into the system etc, hardly the actions of those who used to consider themselves 'the guardians of the waterways'. I've now come to accept, if not fully understand, that there is a majority that prefer this type of 'fishing', but I wish that they would recognise that there is a significant minority who don't. Some like me avoid them like the plague, others fish them because they have no choice in their area, and sadly some I know have pack in fishing citing these waters as the main reason. Retaining that choice, is all I've tried to campaign for over the years, after seeing so many good, natural, waters with a nature led balance of species, turned into 'clones' of these artificial waters. It's not just carp, I knew a guy who tried to create a 'super' pike water, and bought pike from all over the North to stock it, some over 20lb. He bought and stocked hundreds of trout to add to the rapidly shrinking resident coarse stocks, and held a few pike matches on it. Little thought that there has to be a balance between preds and prey fish, and the number and well being of each, is totally dependent on that of the other.
My questioning over the years has led me to believe that there are those that are convinced that the amount and variety of food in a water, automatically increases in direct proportion to the number of fish stocked in it.
Sorry for the long rant, reply, but your question suggests that you wouldn't have expected anything less, and at least my posts have made you laugh, unlike those that take it all too personally and take offence.😉😗

John
 

Zerkalo

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There's not that many species you can put in a lake anyway, and most of them (the silvers) are more fun to catch from a river. Sometimes makes me wonder what fish it is that people want to catch?
 

JayD

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I'm in the same area as you, so if I spot anything likely, I'll let you know.
Thanks Martin, I'm a bit west of you, and have tried most waters in the area, and I'm still looking. My first love is rivers, but still dearly miss the old mixed stillwaters I used to fish. I'm still looking for a club with something similar, and if I find one I will pass it on.

John.
 

Sam Vimes

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Would you mind elaborating on your experience with the mixed fishery?

I have to admit, it has crossed my mind to look into creating a small fishery, not for profit, just because it would be an interesting project.
I'm a member of a mixed fishery syndicate. Without carp and carpers, we'd not get enough folks to pay the rent. We have tench and bream larger than the vast majority of waters within at least fifty miles. That gets the interest of plenty of non-carp anglers when they get wind of it. However, as soon as they hear the price, they suddenly lose interest. Sadly, carp and carpers pay the bills. Those that say they'd like to avoid carp, and catch big bream and tench, just don't.

Whether people like it or not (I'm not overly keen myself), the vast majority of people want either loads of smaller carp, or a chance of big carp. If a water doesn't have either, it best have something exceptional in terms of size or quantity. It might also be a good idea if it costs very little to fish. If not, there's a fair chance that it'll be ignored by many. The only slight ray of hope is that I'm not convinced that some are actually carp obsessed, they just want to catch big bags of fish relatively easily. Unfortunately, lots of carp are usually the easiest way for a water to cater to this desire.
 

Total

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No Mark, not even a soap box, more like a tackle box, I think that's why I'm so passionate about angling. If you think I'm bad now, then you should have seen and heard me back in the day before I mellowed with age. 😄

Over the last 25+ years, I've spoken to anglers, club committees, fishery owners/landowners, EA officers and officials, and anyone who would listen, and some who didn't want to😉, about why they purposely overstock waters. Not one has come up with an answer that didn't include either financial profit, and/or because anglers want easier fishing, leading to big weight potential. Hardly a word about the possible environmental impact on waters by escapees into the system etc, hardly the actions of those who used to consider themselves 'the guardians of the waterways'. I've now come to accept, if not fully understand, that there is a majority that prefer this type of 'fishing', but I wish that they would recognise that there is a significant minority who don't. Some like me avoid them like the plague, others fish them because they have no choice in their area, and sadly some I know have pack in fishing citing these waters as the main reason. Retaining that choice, is all I've tried to campaign for over the years, after seeing so many good, natural, waters with a nature led balance of species, turned into 'clones' of these artificial waters. It's not just carp, I knew a guy who tried to create a 'super' pike water, and bought pike from all over the North to stock it, some over 20lb. He bought and stocked hundreds of trout to add to the rapidly shrinking resident coarse stocks, and held a few pike matches on it. Little thought that there has to be a balance between preds and prey fish, and the number and well being of each, is totally dependent on that of the other.
My questioning over the years has led me to believe that there are those that are convinced that the amount and variety of food in a water, automatically increases in direct proportion to the number of fish stocked in it.
Sorry for the long rant, reply, but your question suggests that you wouldn't have expected anything less, and at least my posts have made you laugh, unlike those that take it all too personally and take offence.😉😗

John
Good evening John, I don't take your posts as 'rants' rather your opinions and they deserve as much respect as others...(y)

I've been around the block more than a few times and have met lots of characters some extremely passionate about their angling and others, well!...It takes all sorts....As long as the rants/passions etc are done appropriately and in a civilised manner and within forum rules they count as qualified material.....

Forums, I've never taken seriously or personally to take offence....But it don't mean to say I'm a soft touch either!;)

Enjoy the rest of your weekend John.....Take care....(y)
 

MartinWY

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I'm a member of a mixed fishery syndicate. Without carp and carpers, we'd not get enough folks to pay the rent. We have tench and bream larger than the vast majority of waters within at least fifty miles. That gets the interest of plenty of non-carp anglers when they get wind of it. However, as soon as they hear the price, they suddenly lose interest. Sadly, carp and carpers pay the bills. Those that say they'd like to avoid carp, and catch big bream and tench, just don't.

Whether people like it or not (I'm not overly keen myself), the vast majority of people want either loads of smaller carp, or a chance of big carp. If a water doesn't have either, it best have something exceptional in terms of size or quantity. It might also be a good idea if it costs very little to fish. If not, there's a fair chance that it'll be ignored by many. The only slight ray of hope is that I'm not convinced that some are actually carp obsessed, they just want to catch big bags of fish relatively easily. Unfortunately, lots of carp are usually the easiest way for a water to cater to this desire.
Without wanting to pry, what sort of rough figure would a person be looking at to join such a syndicate? I've heard all sorts of figures for carp syndicates, but I don't honestly think I've come across a mixed syndicate, although to be fair, I probably wouldn't know where to look.
 

Sam Vimes

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Without wanting to pry, what sort of rough figure would a person be looking at to join such a syndicate? I've heard all sorts of figures for carp syndicates, but I don't honestly think I've come across a mixed syndicate, although to be fair, I probably wouldn't know where to look.
Carp syndicates down south can run to thousands of pounds. I've not heard of anything North of the Humber costing thousands, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. The sad reality is that most people see the word syndicate and assume that means carp. I've only been a part of two syndicates, the lake I've referenced here and a river syndicate.

A syndicate can be whatever the person running it (and/or the membership) wants it to be. A genuine syndicate only has to cover the rent and have a bit extra to pay for stock. No one (other than whoever the rent is paid to) should be making money in a true syndicate. This is not the case for plenty of "syndicates".
 

Silverfisher

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I used to think the above, but got seriously fed up with the sport being so inconsistent on my rivers Thames, Medway, Loddon, Kennet etc etc, not to mention the floods, water extraction, boats, public etc etc etc....... Waste of time these days.....
I think it depends entirely on where you are and what your expectations are. On my local Thames the fishing is as far as understand as good as it’s been since the 60s (obviously only been on it about 15 years myself so going off hearsay a bit) in that catches that were considered pretty impressive in the years between now and then are pretty routine now. You’ve only got to look at match results and pleasure nets to see it. Of course you still have rubbish days but that just makes good days better. Does get a bit tedious when every day on a venue is easy after all! You can’t expect to catch massive commercial type weights every time (have you ever on naturals!) but you can do double figure nets of roach more often than not, get pretty big perch routinely, find a few decent bream if you want to or catch pike on almost any method you want without massive effort. That’s considered good fishing by most around here. Yes you get a lot of boats, walkers and swimmers which can be annoying but it’s also part of the fun in a way. More interesting at least than just sat around a pond with a few blokes. Only really bad things are the floods and bleak! Even nationally without really knowing what I’ve been doing I’ve been able to rock up on the likes of the warks Avon, great Ouse, Dorset stour, bure, middle severn etc and have pretty good sport without massive effort. Tbh the only rivers that have beaten me are the wye and hants Avon. And I’m a bang average angler at best! Well on today’s performance a fair way under average!

I don’t know if it’s that people have been spoilt with commercials so they’re expectations are warped as to what to expect fishing in the real world (that’s not a dig simply commercials are created solely for fishing after all so arent really the real world) or that some just don’t want to put the effort in but in the right places at the right time there’s plenty of good sport to had on other types of venues still 👍🏻
 

Total

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I think it depends entirely on where you are and what your expectations are. On my local Thames the fishing is as far as understand as good as it’s been since the 60s (obviously only been on it about 15 years myself so going off hearsay a bit) in that catches that were considered pretty impressive in the years between now and then are pretty routine now. You’ve only got to look at match results and pleasure nets to see it. Of course you still have rubbish days but that just makes good days better. Does get a bit tedious when every day on a venue is easy after all! You can’t expect to catch massive commercial type weights every time (have you ever on naturals!) but you can do double figure nets of roach more often than not, get pretty big perch routinely, find a few decent bream if you want to or catch pike on almost any method you want without massive effort. That’s considered good fishing by most around here. Yes you get a lot of boats, walkers and swimmers which can be annoying but it’s also part of the fun in a way. More interesting at least than just sat around a pond with a few blokes. Only really bad things are the floods and bleak! Even nationally without really knowing what I’ve been doing I’ve been able to rock up on the likes of the warks Avon, great Ouse, Dorset stour, bure, middle severn etc and have pretty good sport without massive effort. Tbh the only rivers that have beaten me are the wye and hants Avon. And I’m a bang average angler at best! Well on today’s performance a fair way under average!

I don’t know if it’s that people have been spoilt with commercials so they’re expectations are warped as to what to expect fishing in the real world (that’s not a dig simply commercials are created solely for fishing after all so arent really the real world) or that some just don’t want to put the effort in but in the right places at the right time there’s plenty of good sport to had on other types of venues still 👍🏻
Most of the rivers I've already mentioned are shot, finished, ain't worth the time. My beloved Severn is the only river I'd consider these days spending anytime on....I'd love a bash at the Trent again, but like the Severn it's too far to consider these days.... :(

I'll make do with my reservoirs, docks and commercials and the odd visit to the Kentish canals/drains....(y)
 

Silverfisher

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Most of the rivers I've already mentioned are shot, finished, ain't worth the time. My beloved Severn is the only river I'd consider these days spending anytime on....I'd love a bash at the Trent again, but like the Severn it's too far to consider these days.... :(

I'll make do with my reservoirs, docks and commercials and the odd visit to the Kentish canals/drains....(y)
Yeah I’ve heard bad things about the kennet and Loddon as my dad used to fish them back in the day. The lowest I’ve been on the Thames is chertsey and tbh it fishes really well from there all the way up to the upstream limit of where I’ve fished it at Northmoor. Sandford and medley in particular are almost like commercials when in good condition. Have you fished it much around this way in recent years? I’ve got a week on the severn in September first time I’ll have been there in 3 years so buzzing for it! Really want to try the Trent as seems it can compete with the Thames for roach and bream.

Your dock fishing sounds fascinating I must say, I wouldn’t have a clue what to do in such environment unless it were saltwater!
 
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