flourocarbon advice needed please

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flukebox

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Greetings fellow eedjits :O)

i'm considering switching over to braid mainline and flourocarbon hooklengths as the river is becoming very clear and the fish easily spooked, but upon researching the subject i appear to have opened a can of worms

My current rigs consist of the following:

reel with 12lb ironsilk > float stop > rubber bead > weight or feeder > rubber bead > blood knot > swivel > two turn water knot attaches > 10lb maxima > knotless knot with hair > size 4 drennan super specialist

i am proposing to switch to:

reel with 30lb braid > float stop > rubber bead > weight or feeder > rubber bead > palomar > swivel > palomar > 15lb berkley trilene flouro > knotless knot with hair > size 4 drennan super specialist

can u see any glaring problems with the new setup?

i am aware that my newly proposed setup will have close to no stretch btw but i am wondering if anyone has experience with the trilene flouro/drennan super specialist and knotless knots with regards breakoffs or how to avoid them or if you can see any other glaring errors i have made or perhaps suggest better alternatives?

basically pick it to peices please :O)

thanks for any advice/pointers you can give

if this has been discussed at length in another thread then please send me a link as i am struggling with the site layout at the mo lol

Thanks in advance

D
 

welshwingnut

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If you are fishing with braid , why dont you stick to braid hook links ? find a braid that will blend in with the river bed there are loads on the market . Also looking at your set up its a little odd I would take my main line put on a rubber bead then my feeder or lead , tie that to swivel size 8 using a uni knot then tie my hook link to the other side of the swivel using the uni knot again and i would be looking at using a smaller hook size 8 or 10 with the shortest hair i could get away with ..Or even just use a korum quick change bead no need for swivels and beads , also another thing i do on the rivers is chnage my hook link lengths even going as long as 4ft plus ..You could even use a heavy in line maggot feeder so it acts as a bolt rig , all the best Graham ps keep them hooks small .
 

flukebox

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Originally posted by common_carp

what are you fishing for? sounds a daft question maybe

i'm targeting barbel and river carp on the kennet and thames matey

no such thing as a daft question bro but i got truck loads of daft answers :D
 

Piker-Dave

aka Common_Carp
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dont bother with fluro on a river IMO, i would lengthen my hook link to be honest.

dont use braided main line on a river, again 15lb mono will do fine, you need a low diameter as possible with the highest BS (river flow)

if the river has very very very little flow and you can easily hold bottom rods up or down with a light lead/feeder then you can use braid mainline if you wish, but dont forget theres no stretch, but might be wise if the bottom is full of rocks and stones.

size 4 hook? again when ive barbel fished ive always used a size 8, caught plenty of fish, that will also be fine for the carp, also all depending on the size of your baits.....

keep it very simple...

size 8 on a hair rig with about 2ft hook link / swivel / bead / feeder / mainline

job done and never failed me.
 
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codenamemilo

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Only problem I have found with flouro, particularly in that sort of breaking strain is it is a very stiff material. Not so much an issue in still water, but in flowing water it can make the hookbait behave very unnaturally and you might find you aren't happy with it in this respect.
 

flukebox

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Originally posted by common_carp

dont bother with fluro on a river IMO, i would lengthen my hook link to be honest.

dont use braided main line on a river, again 15lb mono will do fine, you need a low diameter as possible with the highest BS (river flow)

if the river has very very very little flow and you can easily hold bottom rods up or down with a light lead/feeder then you can use braid mainline if you wish, but dont forget theres no stretch, but might be wise if the bottom is full of rocks and stones.

size 4 hook? again when ive barbel fished ive always used a size 8, caught plenty of fish, that will also be fine for the carp, also all depending on the size of your baits.....

keep it very simple...

size 8 on a hair rig with about 2ft hook link / swivel / bead / feeder / mainline

job done and never failed me.

hehe yep thats right size 4 barbless gaff hook! lol :O

there is a good reason for this, the gape of the hook must be at least half the diameter of the bait im using and thats mostly donkey choker halibuts about 28mm lol

i catch loads so not a problem, but i also appreciate smaller hook sizes bring more bites but im not struggling for fish, whereas when i was using 10's 8's and 6's i was missing loads of takes which was very frustrating :(

so 4's it is! lol

my hooklink only ever goes over a foot if im upstream legering to give the fish some head clearance on my mainline or if im trying to drift a bait under a raft of flotsam hehe usually my hooklink is about 8 inches, this works fine, for me

im really angling here for advice on what knots to use with the flouro and braid bro

two turn water knots, tucked bloods and knotless knots have been my staple for years but i know im going to have to change so what is best for flouro?

if you have to use a uni knot to tie hook with it as opposed to the knotless knot then how do you setup your hair rig?

confused.com lol
 

flukebox

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Originally posted by welshwingnut

If you are fishing with braid , why dont you stick to braid hook links ? find a braid that will blend in with the river bed there are loads on the market . Also looking at your set up its a little odd I would take my main line put on a rubber bead then my feeder or lead , tie that to swivel size 8 using a uni knot then tie my hook link to the other side of the swivel using the uni knot again and i would be looking at using a smaller hook size 8 or 10 with the shortest hair i could get away with ..Or even just use a korum quick change bead no need for swivels and beads , also another thing i do on the rivers is chnage my hook link lengths even going as long as 4ft plus ..You could even use a heavy in line maggot feeder so it acts as a bolt rig , all the best Graham ps keep them hooks small .

alright welshy!

thanks for response mate, got me thinking

i'm looking at flouro hooklength material as opposed to braid because the riverbeds im fishing are so varied i would need about 50 colours of braid and i work on the principle less is more so with flouro being supposedly invisible i reckon that'll do the job for all occasions, i hope :D

my setup has a float stop that acts as a semi fixed bolt rig, then a rubber bead either side of my weight, then a swivel, then hooklength, is that weird? why? :(

i used to fish matches so i am aware the smaller the hook the better but i have to use the size 4 because the gape of the hook is just over half the diameter of the pellets i am using and otherwise the hook wouldnt protrude past the bait and hence would never hook anything, have i explained that right? make any sense? hope so! :D

works for me anyways and i seem to catch a lot, which is why i am loathe to change the setup

i guess im asking if

a. is the knotless knot ok to use with flourocarbon lines in your experience? if tied carefully?

b. can a two turn water knot be used with flouro or is the uni knot the best? or what to use?

thanks for any help you can give :O)
 

codenamemilo

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Knotless knots can be very dodgy with flouro, depending on the particular nature of the hook pattern and eye angle etc. I would not have a great degree in confidence in it for big fish tied with this know. Also avoid grinner or any constrictive knot. Blood knots and palomar would be my knots of choice. If i want to use hair rigs with flourocarbon, i prepare them by whipping tying thread onto the hook to create a hair.
 

NoFinPhish

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There tends to be a weakness at the exit of the eye when you use flouro. I have lost good fish to that problem!

The problem gets worse with inturned eyes. I would think that chosing your meat-hook [;)] in a hook pattern specifically designed for stiff hooklinks (i.e. outturned) will pretty much eliminate the problem.

You could also look at using a grinner for the flouro, and hook-beads/rig ring arrangement for mounting the hair if you want to keep the hook pattern you are using now.
Or granny-knot a seperate hair to the eye using braid and trap it to the shank with tubing. I wouldn't use heatshrink tubing near flouro though, so just push some tight tubing on and maybe use a bit of glue to set it in place.
 

flukebox

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thanks lads

what a knowledgeable bunch you are :D

so let me see if i got this straight

1. i can use the knotless knot with flouro on my gaff hooks if i gently/slowly out turn the eye with some pliers so there is no pressure point put on the line

2. i can use the palomar/tucked blood to attach my flouro hooklength to my swivel

3. but it will be stiffer than im used to

sound about right?

what problems might i encounter with stiff hooklinks then? im guessing it will eliminate a few tangles on the cast which will be good but what are the downsides with stiffys? lol

my usual stuff maxima is very supple and stretchy so im imagining a teething p[eriod with the new setup but frankly looking forward to the change

my mate fell asleep other night and he had a fish on but after a while of screaming in his face to wake him up it seemed a lost cause so i took it myself, little barbel about 7lb or so but he was using braid and what a difference!

im all excited now :D
 

NoFinPhish

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The flouro I use (xline) is not much stiffer than mono

If trilene is stiff, the hair will make the bait move unaturally, but I wouldn't see that as an issue on a river.

It may well have less abraision resistance than mono so run your fingers down the hooklength every so often just to check for nicks

Other than that, you shouldn't have any problems that I can think of.
 

flukebox

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Originally posted by NoFinPhish

The flouro I use (xline) is not much stiffer than mono

If trilene is stiff, the hair will make the bait move unaturally, but I wouldn't see that as an issue on a river.

It may well have less abraision resistance than mono so run your fingers down the hooklength every so often just to check for nicks

Other than that, you shouldn't have any problems that I can think of.

thanks jason

i've no idea if the trilene is stiff as haven't had it in my hands yet but have taken on baord your recommendation of xline, if your using it with success it must be good stuff right?

my hair rigs are about 2mm long so not worried about the hair much hehe

because im fishing snags and rocky bottoms i have gotten into a habit of checking for nicks and checking the hook point every cast, through losing some good fish through negligence so good advice thanks man

right sod it im gonna do it lol

will let you know how i get on, as if anyone in the universe cares lol

thanks for your time and wisdom all

:O)
 

welshwingnut

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How about fishing lead core and pinning everything down so it should act all natural , barbel will spook very easily in clear conditions so the more we can do to eliminate the spooks the better .
 

flukebox

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Originally posted by welshwingnut

How about fishing lead core and pinning everything down so it should act all natural , barbel will spook very easily in clear conditions so the more we can do to eliminate the spooks the better .

yea could do i suppose, good idea, but i like to keep things simple if i can

i reckon the 28mm halibut donkey choker pins it down jus fine ;)

i like the idea of invisible line so think ill invest in a flouro and try it out

which flouros do you lot use/trust/recommend?
 

welshwingnut

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Berkly triline is very good ..i dont know what river you are fishing but if the barbel are a little finicky then stiff flourocarbon might make them back off a liitle , barbel suss all food out with their whiskers before nailing the bait and if they think somethings not right they back off flourocarbon may be a little stiff in this case , so why dont you try daiwa sensor clear for your hook links i have used it in low clear conditions and its working for me , you say you are going to use a 28mm donkey choker thats another area where you may be going wrong , try using smaller baits even as low as 8mm pellets , i use 2 elips pellets back to front on a very short hair and it works for me , all the best .
 
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flukebox

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Oct 6, 2009
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Originally posted by welshwingnut

Berkly triline is very good ..i dont know what river you are fishing but if the barbel are a little finicky then stiff flourocarbon might make them back off a little , barbel suss all food out with their whiskers before nailing the bait and if they think somethings not right they back off flourocarbon may be a little stiff in this case , so why dont you try daiwa sensor clear for your hook links i have used it in low clear conditions and its working for me , you say you are going to use a 28mm donkey choker thats another area where you may be going wrong , try using smaller baits even as low as 8mm pellets , i use 2 elips pellets back to front on a very short hair and it works for me , all the best .

right i'll get a spool of the trilene then and try that out mate seems cheap enough at 10 for 200mtr

have heard good things about daiwa sensor too so will try some of that too!

can assure you the 28mm donkey chokers and size 4 gaff hook are not 'going wrong' bro hehe ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4fTyVXS6vM

been fishing for barbel for about ten years now so learnt a thing or two and current setup seems to catch some nice fish, hope you'll agree!

just dont know very much about braid or flouro :(

but i do now!

thanks to you smelly fishy lot ! :D

packing up the stuff as i type this going for an all nighter with the missus and kids wish me luck!
 
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