Countryside March

Status
Not open for further replies.

mcurtis

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
23
For those that don't know, the Countryside March is to be held in London on 22 September. I will be attending. Bear in mind that there is a growing anti-fishing lobby, and that the Countryside March is about that as much as hunting etc.

Anyone want more info, drop me a line at mjc@martincurtis.net
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Messages
44
I have other commitments so can't go icon_smile_sad.gif but ill be there in spirit. Ill be wearing my lib/lively hood shirt even though i aint there.
Think its about time us fisherman woke up and realised that it'll be us one day and it'll come sooner than we think.

www.tjsangling.co.uk
stickfloatking@tjsangling.co.uk
 

Trogg

the bouncer
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 11, 2001
Messages
27,731
"us fishermen" have been fighting the anti's for years, & with no help from anyone other than the angling groups.

As soon as hunting is threatend a group suddenly appears to help with country pursuits, where was this group when angling needed help?? why has it only come into being now?? why do they suddenly feel the need for anglers to join them??


Angling has its own powers but the massive rifts in the angling world are being widened all the time by those who just can't get along with others methods, take a look at the lake district live baiting issue for example.

If ALL the anglers in britain had written a letter supporting the live baiters ( or just stood together) then it might just piossibly have still been allowed now, it shouldn't matter what type of angler you are or what kind of species you "target" what should matter is the simple fact that we are all brothers of the angle.
The one voice of angling could be taken from a tiny squeek to a massive roar if we could just learnt that our beloved sport is more important than our own feelings towards others methods.

I won't be supporting the march, i also have this strange feeling that when huntings banned & it will be banned, the CA won't be so interested in angling or the fight thats been looming on the horizon for a long time now.

BTW Sticky

Some anglers already have woken up & are playing the anti's at their own game but unlike them the plans etc aren't posted on the internet where's the surprise if they know whats coming?

Alan

I'll have a fiver on the black un

Edited by - Trogg on 02 September 2002 11:37:34 AM
 

mcurtis

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
23
I don't believe what you have said about the CA is true. They are an organisation that is heavily involved in the farming fraternity by their very nature. Many, many farms nowadays have diversified with fishing lakes etc. etc. and seeing another possible source of income taken away from farmers will always be of interest to them.

CA are not a single issue organisation interested in Hunting and if we want to protect the interests of angling, they are one body that we must work with and support. However, I do agree that angling needs to get its own act in order as well.


Martin
 

Beebs

Regular member
Joined
May 30, 2002
Messages
3,814
The problem is, that hunting is a minority sport loathed by the majority, and angling is a a majority sport loathed by the minority. Most people in Britain are against hunting. However when it comes to angling, most people think of it as a peaceful pastime, not pounding through the country blowing horns, killing foxes for the hell of it.
If the CA can get anglers on side, it would look like we are condoning hunting and I for one do not. They would get a lot of people showing their support for something they may not neccesarily agree with, just in case the antis turn their attention to angling.
Well, the antis have turned their attention, but the difference is that fishing is the most popular pastime in the world and a multi million pound business, bringing money to places where there may not be much and employing many thousands of people. Hunting is not exactly in the same league now is it? How many of us 'Commoners' are ever likely to get the chance to go on a fox hunt?
Angling needs to fight its own corner with its own arguments, not jump into bed with the hunting fraternity because "We'll be next." as they put it.
Some MP's may well be against angling, but before they ban it completely, they're gonna have to come up with an alternative to just throwing bailiffs, tackle shop owners, tackle shop workers, fishery owners, tackle manufacturers and everybody else involved in the angling industry onto the dole. On top of that, are they going to start throwing people who nip down to the river for a sly fish on a Sunday into jail. If every fisherman in the country did that, just for one day, where would that leave the justice system? With a few million people destined for the slammer and no slammer to put them in.
I think that what is happening is that the Pro Hunt lobby are looking very much like losing the right to their sport and knowing they haven't got many people to aruge their case, they are looking to the angling community to back them up.
Majority of public opinion is against hunting, that's not the case for angling. Fishermen would be best off leaving the hunters to argue ttheir case and worry about their own sport, rather than show support for something we really have no involvment in.

 

Geoff P

The MOGerator
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,496
Alan

I do not believe that the ban on Live baiting was a hit against angling, from what I read it is a step to protect certain, I believe indigenous, species in the lakes in that the Lake District area.

Apparently there is no plan to have the live bait ban brought in nationally, but personally I couldn't care less, cos when I did fish for Pike I always used dead bait anyway, and on occasions I used lures.

I really think I am cruel enough by using live maggots and worms.

And just to set the records straight, I do not follow fox hunts, and have never supported a hunt, or been at a meet. I just cannot stand the idea that something should be banned cos a load of ignorant townies, mamby pamby do gooders, and moronic MPs don't agree with it. At the same time putting a lot of people out of work.

(Do you think Bambi would give me 2000 to go back to England if I asked nicely - it would be money better spent than giving it to Afghans)

Geoff

RSSG member - are you?
Clean Banks Campaign member
 

Ziptrev

05/10/01 - 18/10/02
In Memoriam
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
1,482
Martin,
Following beebs lead, I have posted my support for your aims both here and on the similar Club house topic.
It is obvious unfortunately that Amglers are too diverse to join as a body.
I shall not march, but will willingly register support.
Geoff , look seriously at live-baiting and the natural food chain.
Scott, spot on.
Trev
Dave,
You know I love you like a brother lol, but you do start some topics off!
I have held off my reply, as I dont wish to upset anyone, but, although in my time allocated I can see no change coming to my Angling, I have 2 sons who are in real danger of losing the enjoyment I receive from it.
Basically, because prejudices are the greatest support possible for the killjoy antis who wish to see political correctness (i.e. Drab conformity) rule throughout the globe.

Angling has absolutely no hope of surviving the next 50 years in its current liberal form in this country, because the divisions are far, far to wide to ever be united!

But that is why we have no hanging in this country.
A few weeks ago, Dave posted a topic concerning bogus council workers preying on the aged.

I posted support saying it was because there was no deterrent and that we should bring back hanging, by referendum I was sure it would be passed.

I had no support, was told that, because of the few innocents hung, it was impossible, despite the 100 + innocent victims that have been murdered by released convicted killers, since hanging was abolished.
Then I visited the North Level Fish-in.
Passing through Lakenheath and bypassing Soham on my journey!

On return home, I was amazed to find post after post not just hang, but torture! A man, with reportedly mental problems, who had not been tried, let alone convicted, of any crime!

What a shame those poor young girls had to die to make people think to agree to hanging, and I did not and do not ask to sink to the levels of the mentally incompetent, just to quickly and cleanly remove them from society and any chance of a repeat performance!

And so to this topic.
The 1st reply I read is from another forum, by an anonymous poster about a 3rd anonymous character, whose attitude is extreme to say the least!
Did anyone with a brain believe he existed!
If the man had been Black, we would have immediately dismissed it as British National Party propaganda and I bet the Anti that made the story up is rubbing his hands with glee that anyone would be taken in by such arrant nonsense!

By perpetuating the class divisions in hunting and fishing the purpose of divide and rule is served admirably.
As I have previously posted, I find Fluff Flingers to come from every social spectrum and as helpful as a carp lake Angler (If not more so)

Dave then with usual tact, points out he is in a minority, but if it is not imagination, then that minority is 1 and to post it as truth, is the biggest help the antis could ever have!
If I did not know Alans love of fishing and agree with him on other points in this topic, I would as a stranger assume him to be a Green or similar!

Then Beebs has his two penneth
Why should They come up with an alternative income for the employees of the insignificant fishing trade?
Do I not remember you saying you were Welsh?
If Im wrong, come up here to Derbyshire and ask the miners what happened to their Industry, 1st under Tony Benn, (Real Labour not Blairs deceit) and then under Maggie?
Bit more significant than Fishing jobs for our BRITISH industry. Yes, you know! Good old Brit jobs like Shimano, Kamatsu, Daiwa etc.,
Then the hunting attacks!
How many of us commoners?
Please dont include me or my friends in this epithet, I know of many country people who follow the hunt avidly, for the spectacle, the tradition and the sheer exhilaration, whilst belonging to the deprived or lower socio-economic groups that abound in the countryside.
However, with the later Hooray Henry comment, the obvious prejudice is clear to see and destroys any credibility.

And economics again.
What about the jobs and tied housing of the kennel lads, whippers in, huntsmen, grooms etc?
What about the millions of dollars spent by tourists to visit the National Hunts each year?
AND what about the hundreds of Ponies and Hounds that, surplus to requirements, WILL be put down.
My nephew Tony, in his RSPCA employment, regularly appearing on Pet rescue in the Bawtry area, may have that job!
Dont tell me someone should find them homes, they cannot cope already.

Ask Dai Fish.
Nationally respected as a specialist in the animal world, he knows to his utter chagrin, the speed of disposal by the RSPCA of perfectly healthy animals.

Also, the fact of hunting is that the vast majority of hunt followers never even see the kill!
Most are there for the same reason we have Fish-ins.
Company and taking part.
Never mind if the fishing is poor, or no foxes are found. The thrill of riding in company, or witnessing the splendour of the cross-country chase, over rough terrain and unkempt hedgerow is enough.

Finally, the hunt abolished, the vermin fox proliferates and the urbanised filth it creates as territories are forced to expand, leads to trapping, wounding and generally creating a much crueller existence than it currently could envisage!

Probably by then, our Cruel animal quarantine laws will also be abolished and an animal, infected by a rabid continental fox, will bite a child and there will be calls for its extinction.

But then, my birth certificate carries my fathers occupation as Farm Horseman so what do we know, coming from the country.

Fishing is the most popular pastime in the world and will never be under threat?
Try Germany,
30 million more population than us and the only legitimate reason for fishing in Germany is to eat the fish!
Any fish over a certain size (And by heavens they are small sizes) MUST be killed, or its off to the courts!
Never happen? Its already started!
A few million people thrown into the slammer for slyly fishing on Sundays?
Well if ALL the licence holders, according to the EA (less than 1 million) did it, it is still less than 2% of the UK population. Not much of a lobby! And absolutely no threat to a political expedient like Bambi.
Perhaps you support and condone another million or two, who evade the licence?
In France, farmers make up 15% of the vote and as you see, from blockades, sheep burning etc. practically rule the Country over their interests.
In Britain, they are relatively insignificant with 2 and 1/2 %, but bigger than our lobby and most support the CA in principle.
So, joining with them makes sense, but it will never happen, as we are all too self-centred and insular.

Live Baiting?
Thanks Alan, I dont believe you practice it, but like Geoff, who rarely fishes rivers, but is in the RSSG, allow others to do so.
A Roach is the natural food to Predators such as Perch and Pike.
Chub like slugs as I so recently discovered.
Tell me the difference.

I recently have live-baited twice on the Trent.
Small Roach were lip hooked in a known Big Perch swim for approximately 2 hours each time.
No takes, so at the end of the session, I unhooked each of them and released them.
They both swam away!

According to much comment, if I had quickly and humanely killed them, I would not have been slandered for using them as dead bait!

I prefer my way.

They only want us to protect hunting, where were they when we needed them?

When did we need them? except for this live baiting ban that has now been implemented in Cumbria and Geoff, ignore the propaganda, Alan is right, it is the thin end of the wedge.
Fish caught from the lakes for use as live bait cannot be a threat to the population; they are already a part of it.
It is only imported fish that should be stopped, which is a reasonable law, already in place!

So, we havent needed them yet and they havent needed us, but when they are gone, we shall stand alone, wishing we had them with us!

Respect too, that they insist on REAL supporters, so its going to cost you at least 60p per minute on the phone to register.
They dont want freebie SACN type sign ups, which are totally meaningless in the Opinion Poll world, but have bravely put out a deterrent to joining by the insistence of put your money where your mouth is
You wont be asked for a penny from the antis!

Right, rant over and if Ive lost friends Im sorry.
Its blatantly obvious that we should support them, and equally obvious that as a GROUP, anglers dont exist.

I shall register support, knowing that the antis wont, that the apathetic (By far the largest group) wont and that I shall be in a minority.

I have no interest in hunting whatsoever; only regret that a fellow human beings pleasure is very soon to be denied them and a sure and certain belief that, once it happens, angling will be moved up the hit list.

I will not march, but then Im selfishly going fishing! While I can!

Its later than you think and I just, again selfishly hope that it wont happen in my time!
Fat chance of that LOL

Cheers

Trev






Ziptrev
Enough! I'm off!
 

animal

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2002
Messages
26
IN MY OPINION HUNTING IS A BARBARIC SPORT CARIED OUT BY SNOBS WHO LOOK DOWN ON US MORTAL ANGLERS . WE SHOULD NOT B GROUPED IN WITH SUCH PEPOLE THIS WILL MAKE US MORE OFA TARGET

animal
 

Dave

Red Leader
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 8, 2001
Messages
61,368
Hi everyone,

I have closed the other thread in the 'Club House' and linked it to this one rather than have the two running parallel icon_smile.gif

(The other one: Liberty & Livelihood March -your opinions )

Dave
 

Geoff P

The MOGerator
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,496
quote:
IN MY OPINION HUNTING IS A BARBARIC SPORT CARIED OUT BY SNOBS WHO LOOK DOWN ON US MORTAL ANGLERS . WE SHOULD NOT B GROUPED IN WITH SUCH PEPOLE THIS WILL MAKE US MORE OFA TARGET

animal


See my last post, poor old Ted Martin was certainly not a snob.

Dave aka Animal, we are already a target. At the moment the thought of banning hunting is a subject the Labour Party morons bring up to take the emphasis off all of the manifesto promises they have broken.

When hunting is finally prohibited they will need something else to use, and fishing is an ideal target because so many take part in it.

Because some people take part in a pursuit you don't agree with is not a good reason to ban it. If that was the case I would ban smoking, snooker, darts and other pursuits I find utterly inane and nonsensical.

Trev, I do like a reasoned argument. Yours points are noted but the only live bait I will use are maggots and worms. We can discuss all of this over a fishing rod at the weekend.

Geoff

RSSG member - are you?
Clean Banks Campaign member
 

Dave

Red Leader
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 8, 2001
Messages
61,368
Okay Moderators jacket off for a mo whilst I speak openly icon_smile_big.gif
quote:Dave,
You know I love you like a brother lol, but you do start some topics off!


Trev, or should I say 'Bro' that was our secret, lol.

For or Against, now that would be a good question for a Poll icon_smile_wink.gif, but for or against what is the question that should really be asked.

For or Against the Countryside Alliance icon_smile_question.gif

Every body has the right to form associations, societies, clubs, etc as that is in our constitution and as such no-one can really criticise the forming of such unless it causes harm or offence to others.

For or Against the Amalgamation of the ACA and the CA icon_smile_question.gif

There has been various debates about this but my understanding is that a moritorium of understanding was written whereupon the two associations agreed to offer each other their supports by amalgamating resources and numbers in the face of the opposition, for want of a better description icon_smile.gif

For or Against Blood Sports icon_smile_question.gif

My feelings on this is that any activity that causes mutilation, harm or death to another person or species should be looked into. Not with the sole aim of banning it or condemning it's participants, but to firstly value it's worth to society in general, understand the reasons behind it and finally to resolve any issues within it.
Take angling for instance and compare it to 50 years ago. Since then you have the 'invention' of barbless hooks, knotless nets, lead-free shot, safe disgorgers, monofilament lines, un-hooking mats, fish anticeptics - the list is endless but goes to show that yes we as anglers are not infallible but also we do care about our sport and the species that we pursue and as such strive to minimise any harm to them.
Life is one big learning curve and we are all still learning.

Should Fox Hunting be banned icon_smile_question.gif

Bearing in mind the above comment that I made, a debate needs to be thrashed out to evaluate it's worth to society and if such a need is found for what ever the reason, then the third part would come into play and that is to resolve any issues within it.
Is there a need to irradicate Foxes in the way as portrade or could another method be adopted?

Does Angling have a future icon_smile_question.gif

Wow, that would need a Politician's touch to answer that one, help me out here Martin icon_smile_wink.gif.
Angling will always have a future but in what guise as time passes by no one could possibly predict.
Throughout history there have always been Objectors and Protestors to just about anything that has ever been decided, taken place, about to take place, etc. Without these we would still be in the dark ages in many respects. How many events in history have changed or failed to take off following protestation?
There comes a point of time when everyone needs to stand up and express their opinions and beliefs, including the Anti's, but living in a democratic society everyone should then having excercised their right to opinion, allow others that same right and then be of the understanding that having accepted democracy they should then accept the end results of those expressions.
Anglers in general have always taken a 'back seat' when faced with adversity because that is our nature, we see angling as a hobby, pastime, sport, and choose to participate because we see it as an escape to the rubbish (couldn't think of an alternative word icon_smile.gif) that we face in life in general. Therefore do we really need to bring it into our escape?

Do we need to stand up and be counted icon_smile_question.gif

How long is a piece of string? Dunno.
One thing is for sure though and something that no-one will dispute is that the anti brigade will always be there. Regardless of whether we sit on the fence, join forces or march down Whitehall.
Do we need to stand up or can we adopt the 'it'll never happen' attitude. Personally I think that anglers in general need to riase their heads above the parapet and show their numbers.
There is an old philosophy relating to 'Big Dog - Little Dog' and one that could well be used here.
"The little dog yaps all the time and no-one takes notice. The big dog barks once and everyone takes heed" - Think about it and compare the Antis as the little dog......

The Countryside March icon_smile_question.gif

Is there a need for it? The farmers think so, the countryside sports think so, do we?
As a person, yes I believe there is a need. Even if just to stand up against the inerrant ramblings of the opposition and for the participants to raise their heads in unity. What greater way than to bring it to a head and to the public's attention?
How many people do you all know of who have an incling that the march is about to take place, or more so what it is about even?
PETA are always out there and have a strong voice because the public are aware of their prescence - take their publicity stunts for example and the consequent news coverage that they receive - remember the campaign outside the school gates?

Now the biggy.....

Do we as Anglers need to be a part of it icon_smile_question.gif

You could try asking General Custer if he wished that the 7th Cavalry had turned up some ten minutes earlier icon_smile_big.gif


Regards, Dave
 

jillygrieve

New member
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
1
I am delighted that some of you in the angling world support the Alliance and its aims. I want to reassure the doubting Thomases that we are 100% behind angling and nothing that happens to hunting, shooting, farming etc will change that. In fact, we have over 15,000 angling members - that can't be bad.

I work in the Alliance's press office, but am also heavily involved in our Campaign for Angling and have been since it started 2 years ago. Our Director, Charles Jardine, has travelled the length and breadth of the country doing all he can to stick up for anglers and I must say I have never met anyone so committed.

The threats to angling are very real - People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) have unlimited funds and are intent on nothing less than a complete ban, which, to anyone with an ounce of sense, is unthinkable.

I think everyone in the countryside should be united against threats to all country sports at the moment - threats to hunting are the thin end of a very large wedge, and I think we should all look out for each other to ensure that we don't lose them all.

I hope you will be one of the thousands of anglers marching for the countryside on 22nd September - we certainly intend to be very vocal!

Jill
 

mcurtis

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
23
Has something kicked off here or what?

Firstly as for fox hunting - there is no justifiable reason for banning it, apart from hatred and prejudice. Hunters are no more snobs that Anglers. The pople that are employed by hunts certainly aren't they are working class people (if such a thing exist) who make a living in the countryside, the very people who are very much at the centre of the poverty that exists in the countryside today. Banning foxhunting will hurt them more than any other.

If you read the Burns report on foxhunting, which was extensive, but a little ambiguous, it found very little of substance to justify a ban. The other concern is that a ban would lead to decimation of the fox population - whilst farmers have an interest in maintaining a fox population bacuase of Hunting, there will always be one, despite the pest problems. As soon as hunting is banned they will be a pest and nothing else and they will be annihilated. There are many other reasons why foxhunting is beneficial. It is a form of selective kill where the fittest survive, ensuring a healthy population; the chase disseminates the fox population and prevents in-breeding and; the alternative is shooting, leading to injured and hurt foxes hobbling around the countryside (I know *experts* can kill every time - but not everyone shooting them will be an expert.

OK, that's my bit on foxhunting over, now for angling.
My answer to:

My answer to:

Does Angling have a future and:
Wow, that would need a Politician's touch to answer that one, help me out here Martin

(apart from what inside information do you have?) is:

Angling may be huge, but it is not a majority. It needs to protect itself, because you can guarantee that PETA and its snivelling supporters will do whatever they can to sway the majority, and more importantly the influential majority (MPs). The CA is one of the vehicles we must use to that, the ACA is another and it is good to know that the two are working together. Anglers are the guardians of Britains waterways and *everyone* should know it. Remember that many similar decisions have been made based on emotion, to guarantee the future of Angling there is a big emotional argument to win over the likes of PETA.

I will March on 22nd, not just to support angling, but for the right for people to enjoy *all* the freedom that our Countryside offers and the right for people to make an honest living from it - that is what the March is about, not just hunting or fishing - although they are an integral part of it.

I shall now put my soapbox away.




Martin
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Messages
44
Hmm where do i start now????? Trev i agree with you mate and Geoff + afew others.
I sorry but for those of you that think the march is a waste of time and think fishing will not be band, I hope it dose for your sake.
I love my fishing i run my own stretch of river and as a few of you know i hope to have my own lake and business in the near future.
The last thing i want is for fishing to be band. But us fisherman won't stand together and be counted no way because its just to much like hard work. Yes it's the biggest past time in the country but it's not as big as you may think.
If it was that big and that interesting the general public would know more about it. Our top match anglers would get awards on TV. They be in the papers for winning gold medals etc etc. But to the public fishing is boring. How many times has someone asked you why do go and sit there for hours and hours getting cold and wet surly it dead boring. You tell them its not but how many times do they ask you the same thing again? Thousends of times i bet. They know nothing about medals or anything to do with fishing. Why because us fisherman can't be bovered to tell the public about our past time.
We have the National fed of anglers the ACA the list goes on Angling time Anglers mail. And not one of these bodies goes out of it's way big time to promote fishing to the public.
Peta sent those information packs out to schools saying fishing is cruel. Who sent out information packs to say fishing is not cruel and is still sending out information packs Hmm no one really connected to fishing but the CA did it.
Alot of the general public think hooks hurt fish they think we still use lead shot that kills birds and line that kill wild animals. We know we don't but they don't know that. The public don't know anything about how much time and money us fisherman but in to cleaning up the waterways they just think it comes out of their tax's.
The likes of Peta are massive you would not belive how big they are and much money they have. Something fishing has not got yes it sends alot but it has not got any one body that has the money and the power to fight for us. We are a very very small group of people the rest will follow what others say and thnk like sheep. We need them sheep on our side not on any one elses. The goverment will follow the sheep like sheep because they want their votes.
I back the CA all the way and i know like a lot of others out here in the countryside that hunting will be band. Little villages like where i live will be dead just like the towns villages in Wales when the pits were shut. Lots of my friends will be out of work they won't be able to pay for their mortages etc just think how many more people will be on the rock and roll. Baning hunting won't just stop that it'll stop the whole country way of life. I just can't belive how self centred people can be i'm sure if the townies way of life and jobs were to be stopped then they would come to us for help. I know what id say go forth and multiply. icon_smile_angry.gif
Oh and one more thing you talk about all the business rod makers etc etc in fishing and they are that big they won't ban fishing. Stop and think how big the horse industry is and work dog industry massive proberly ten times the size of the fishing industry. So don't think they won't ban fishing because of it industry.
Come on people wake up get out of that bivvy and open your eye's.

www.tjsangling.co.uk
stickfloatking@tjsangling.co.uk
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Messages
44
Right ive just been thinking, so you think fishing won't be band then!
AS a few of you may know apert from fishing i do a lot of off road motor sport. I own and race Land Rovers you may think whats this got to do with fish etc being band. But belive it or not this type of motor sport is trying to be stopped and they are doing it to. The Land Rover movement in this country is big far bigger than fishing will ever be. Basicly they are, the goverment that is, after pressure from the public want off road trialing stopped and a bill is being but through parliment soon. The other thing is green laning or the driving of byways etc. For those of you that don't know what these are they are unsurfaced roads or tracks that criss cross our countryside. Most of the general public don't know they are there as most are not marked. You need maps marked by byway officers from local councils to find out where they are. But dew to pressure from small groups of people these lanes tracks etc are being slowly closed, So the small groups of people can have them all to their selfs.
These lanes etc have been used for transport for hundreds and hundreds of years but soon to be lost forever dew to a selfish few.
Land Rover groups and clubs are now getting together to fight for their rights and in places its working. But it's only because the Land Rover movement stick together to help each that they are putting a stop to this being band. Some thing i can never see happening in the fishing world.
So even some thing harmless can be band by a few people.
Land Rover trialling is a big motor sport i travel all over the country to take part and to watch it. But just like fishing people are trying their best to get it stopped.

www.tjsangling.co.uk
stickfloatking@tjsangling.co.uk
 

Beebs

Regular member
Joined
May 30, 2002
Messages
3,814
Ok then. Gloves off are they? If anglers turn up on the 22nd in support of this march, the general public are going to think that fishermen support fox hunting. I couldn't give a s**t whether you think you're protecting your hobby or standing up for country sports. The public will think it's all about fox hunting and when you all stand up and say you support them, you are in danger of losing favour with the people whose opinion the rulers of the country eventually have to listen to.
Arguing the case for fox hunting is difficult when you consider the general public perception of it compared to fishing.

Trev - you really showed your true colours when disagreeing with someone elses opinion with you patronising remarks, since most people associate fox hunters with 'Hooray Henrys' how can it lack credibility? It's a bit late in the day to try and educate the British public that 'fox hunting really isn't so bad and townies just don't understand it.' Not much effort was made to educate them until it looked like it was going to get banned. The fact of the matter is, the majority of the British public associate hunting as a blood sport and won't shed many tears if it gets banned. If anglers speak up in support, they will appear to favour blood sports, with the danger that the public will then see angling in the same light. Anyway, is it totally inconceivable that everybody involved in a hunt could do what they do anyway without setting out to kill anything? If the thrill is riding through the countryside with a group of friends, the British people would wonder what all the fuss was about. The fact that when they all get up in the morning, they set out to rip foxes apart with a pack of dogs, that is public perception, whether you like it or not and that is why it's hard to argue for it. Public perception of fishing is totally different. I may have been away from angling for a while, but I remember there always being an Anti-angling movement, they were generally thought of as over zealous vegans with nothing better to do, start piping up in favour of the march on 22nd September and you risk people associating you with hunting and swaying public opinion towards this lot.
Apologies if I thought you and your associates were 'Commoners', it's not often I find myself in the company of Lords of the Realm, it's just that in civilian clothes, they look like the rest of us.

Geoff - in case you were wondering, I don't support red or blue. Each as bad as the other in my book. I have the misfortune of living opposite my MP (Conservative) and find him extremely arrogant.
If Blair is giving people 2000 to go home, I have a proposition for you, you stay in my house for a week, I'll tramp back to Morriston, we pocket 4000 and spend it all on fishing tackle.

And before you all go off thinking I'm just a prickly sod, I have no trouble getting on with people, but when people pee me off, I'm buggered if I'm going to sit there and take it quietly.





 

Ziptrev

05/10/01 - 18/10/02
In Memoriam
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
1,482
Beebs, no problem at all mate, if we agreed on everything then the world would be a boring place.
However, I get out of my pram also, when I read the unsupported statements that people pour out as facts and then shy away from backing them up when challenged.
Commoners to Lords hey? Is there no middle ground?
I have never claimed an elevated position and your reference to living opposite your MP would suggest your housing standards are way above mine, so derogatory minority epithets such as 'Hooray Henrys' may be inverted snobbery?
I took 'commoners'to be this mythical majority that you claim think like you about hunting, with no supporting evidence.
Read Martins post regarding the report on banning hunting! Better still read it yourself.
Read Scotts report on the CA sending Schools an alternative to PETA's brainwashing attempts.
Was you aware of that? I wasn't , thanks Scott for some helpful facts!
Where were the NFA (Again!)
The 'majority' this, 'most' that! where's the evidence? Certainly not on this current post.
And I take it you have abandoned your otherwise totally unsupportable claims over 'It will never happen', 'The fishing industry is to valuable'etc., as you make no repeat claims and quietly and conveniantly forget those!

My 'True Colours'
A genuine love of Angling and a wish to see it continue for the pleasure of my descendants and all who share my pleasure.
Not destroyed without a fight caused by the 'Gullivers Travels 'type internal arguments in the so called 'Brotherhood of the Angle'

How I wish that were a reality!

I shall not march, health and time make that impractical, but following Dave's thought provoking argument over size and impact, I shall register and join the CA in the hope of adding to the fight to preserve fishing for my boys and for you too Beebs and all others who enjoy this superb past-time


Cheers

Trev
PS This march is NOT exclusively about hunting. It is a Lives/Liberties issue, so is anyone Anti-Landrover racing going to have a pop at Scott?
or will the anti landrover brigade turn on Angling next?
Trev
Ziptrev
Enough! I'm off!

Edited by - Ziptrev on 04 September 2002 12:15:09 PM
 

Beebs

Regular member
Joined
May 30, 2002
Messages
3,814
You seem to have a bit of a habit of trying to put words in my mouth, Trev, and assume too much and know too little about me. Point out where I said "It will never happen" regarding fishing getting banned. I just think with the millions of people that fish, that to enforce a total ban would be impossible - have policemen patrolling every stretch of water and coastline in the country - come on. Personally I can't see it. With the police force and prisons so overstretched at the moment can you seriously see them seeing fishermen as public enemy number 1. Look at their stance on drugs - decriminalising cannabis and calls to change Ecstasy from Class A to Class B. Do you think they are going to stop arresting drug heads and start arresting anglers instead?
Speaking as an ordinary member of the public and after having discussed the events of the 22nd with other ordinary members of the public, having grown up in the countryside and knowing many farmers in the past, I know that the general feeling is that no matter if you name it Liberty & livelyhood or whatever you want to call it, whenever I speak to other fishermen and other people about this, they say the same thing "Isn't that the Pro Hunt lot?" What are you suggesting? That I and the people I know and talk to are not general members of the public? That we are some how in some isolated bubble. As for repeating claims, what do expect, for me to regurgitate the same stuff time and time again? I've given my opinion, I'm not going to go on repeating myself time and again to prove a point. The thread asked for opinions. I gave mine, you don't agree with it - fine, You state that it's obvious that we should all support the march. Not obvious to me and just because it's obvious to you doesn't necessarily make it right.
Good for you that you agree strongly enough to put money into it, me, I think its dangerous to be seen in the same light. Guilty by association I believe they call it.
Did you see me quote anything as fact, read my post and you'll see that I have given my opinion as I see it and by talking and listening to people around me who I meet in work, in the tackle shop, on the bank etc. A pretty varied bunch of people from all walks of life and I consider to be a good cross section of the community. They all seem to be of similar opinion. Maybe I should have written that the majority of people I have spoken to appears to think it's a Pro Hunt march. Maybe that's just the people I've been speaking to, maybe the ones you've discussed it with are more informed, but do you honestly think that majority of the people in the country are just as well informed - I don't. Do you think the majority of the British public actually support hunting with dogs - I don't. I think that the casual observers think it's a Pro Hunt march. You can poll them if you like, I have my own issues to worry about.
From my standpoint we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not prepared to get into an ongoing slanging match with you Trev because it would achieve nothing and end in acrimony. I will be going back to my Ivory tower in Farnborough to pull faces at the MP over the road and finally get around to washing my unhooking mat. For the record, I live in a shared house with 5 other people. Make of that what you will.

 
Joined
Feb 25, 2002
Messages
44
Well think tis thread is going no where really but hay it was a good dedate don't you think. We'll all have our own views but thats life.
One thing though Beebs you mention this:
I just think with the millions of people that fish, that to enforce a total ban would be impossible - have policemen patrolling every stretch of water and coastline in the country - come on. Personally I can't see it. With the police force and prisons so overstretched at the moment can you seriously see them seeing fishermen as public enemy number 1. Look at their stance on drugs - decriminalising cannabis and calls to change Ecstasy from Class A to Class B. Do you think they are going to stop arresting drug heads and start arresting anglers instead?
Well what about all the millions of people that hunt? so if you delete fish and add hunt in to what you wrote then its the same.
Anyway as i said before its not just about hunting thats another reason why this march is happening. So we can try and get people to realise its not just hunting its everything else. Hunting is just a very small part if it.
Like you beebs i don't want to have a slaging match with anyone as it gets us no where. I just wish people would listen to what the CA has to say first before they go off shouting about hunt this hunting that.
If people would just listen the world would more than likely be a better place.
That is all this march is about to trying and get people to listen.
Fishing will be turned on one day and when it dose i just hope to god the general public listen to what we have to say before jumping in with both feet and say it should be band because it cruel.
Oh and just to add another bit it not just hunting with dogs that they want bad it's hunting fullstop. Thats guns, dog, nets, ferrets, rods and line, anything that kills or harms and animal of any kind in the name of sport they want band end of story.

www.tjsangling.co.uk
stickfloatking@tjsangling.co.uk
 

Ziptrev

05/10/01 - 18/10/02
In Memoriam
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
1,482
Thanks beeb,
I certainly agree that we must disagree on this one, but thats what debate is all about and nothing personal intended.

For the record I agree with you 100% personally, about hunting with dogs!
Does absolutely nothing for me!
I wouldn't get up to see them pass the road, even in their finery and I used to curse the traffic jams they caused when I lived at Shepshed, near the Quorn hunt.
The kill itself, Iwouldn't want to witness, although all my reading has convinced me that the vast majority of responsible hunts ensure this is as humanely done as possible.(is humanely the right word for a fox? or am I guilty of anthromorphisis, the tool of the anti's?)

However!
I do not want to see a centuries old tradition banned for Political Correctness sake, denying thousands of ALL types of people their pleasure and causing untold hardship for many, totally unecessarily (in my opinion only!)
I grew up at my Primary school, singing 'D'ye ken John Peel'and not understanding anything other than that Hunting had inspired people for generations.
Do I want to go down in history as one of the Generation that were so intolerant of others feelings that we banned it?
No I do not!
Hitler banned a few things! Look how History thinks of his era.

I agree too, that the perception of 'The Great British Public' is that the CA is about Hunt Supporters only.
However, as we have learnt, many other issues are involved and if everyone tried to bring this home as Scott so admirably did with his LandRover post, perhaps We Anglers, probably the next largest body behind the Farmers, could help to explain that!
Certainly it is better than the 'Pull the ladder up Jack, I'm all right' attitude, because one day we may well be isolated.

Your right, I dont know you and I must point out that the same applies to you with regard to me, so 'us commoners'?

I think people who do know me on here and through the various Fish-ins we have met at would say I have a fairly good track record for trying to HELP others.
Macmillans, Little Jason with his kit, Off to the Winged fellowship on monday, so understand please that whenever I see a 'Lets leave them alone and look after ourselves post', I rarely agree.
I also have posted many times my hatred of minority sneering epithets such as scouse, maccam etc.,often meant in fun, but so dangerous to certain people and to class all the non-hunt people as 'commoners', and all the hunt supporters as 'Hooray Henrys'is to me the same misleading generalisation.
Hence my reaction.
So, back to the issue.
Dave has convinced me that its worth registering a vote to ensure liberty is maintained wherever possible, Scott has opened my eyes to other minorities, Hunting gets my vote to be allowed to continue, but don't make it compulsory for me!
and I hope we can help the preservation of Angling liberties, again without making live-baiting, or fly-fishing compulsory, but allowing them as an option on those waters where it is permissable.

Cheers

Trev

Ziptrev
Enough! I'm off!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top