Commercials, Why It Upsets Me

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alsur

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Surely we all go fishing for pleasure and what type of fishing gives you pleasure is up to you. In a normal season I fish various types of waters, all the matches I fish now are on commercials and I enjoy them personally I prefer the venues where weights are lower but that my personal preference, pleasure fishing I stick to club waters and vary where I fish and am happy not to catch as much as I would at a commercial. If I feel the need to bag up the club has a carp runs water that responds well to commercial tactics so I go there if they didn't I would go to local commercial. Once it gets cold I tend to concentrate on Rivers and only fish lakes on matches. I would say in general fish are easier to catch on commercials but that doesn't lessen the skill you need to do well in matches and it is also easy to catch on some club waters. Also not all commercials are the same and not all lakes on commercial are the same complexes. I've had most of my match fishing success on rivers and canals but I think with the walks involve I would really struggle to fish them now and that is one of benefits of match fishing on commercials especially with amount of tackle we now take.
 
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nejohn

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Never fished a canal,reservoir or gravel pit in your life then John?
Or maybe a session on the Fens or Norfolk Broads ?
Or maybe a river that has had its flow diverted by a lock, weir,flood canalisation process?

Thankfully your attitude towards angling is a thing primarily of your age group and one that doesn't impact on the enjoyment most get from angling.
I get where you are coming from but not really a relevant argument is it, all of those places you quote are man made yes but they were made for a purpose other than fishing, a canal was made to transport goods from one place to another, a reservoir a place to store domestic drinking water, a gravel pit ....well there's a clue in the name......fishing in these places is only a by product of the original intended use.......However almost all commercial fisheries were created with the sole purpose of creating a lake for fishing to make the owner of the said lake money.....again a clue in the name commercial fishery ie a fishery for commercial gain
 

Lee Richards

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So clubs never own and stock natural waters then?
I can name at least four waters by me that are natural,are impacted by the Severn when it floods and are restocked.
Larford and Uckinghall being the two most well known in the area.

John has answered your question for you John
 

JayD

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Never fished a canal,reservoir or gravel pit in your life then John?
Or maybe a session on the Fens or Norfolk Broads ?
Or maybe a river that has had its flow diverted by a lock, weir,flood canalisation process?

Thankfully your attitude towards angling is a thing primarily of your age group and one that doesn't impact on the enjoyment most get from angling.

I did post a reply before you decided to edit this post Lee, but I will expand on it.
All of the above were built, designed or dug for a specific purpose, angling wasn't even considered, and came about merely as a consequence of them being there.
Take my experience on canals for instance, I fished the Leeds and Liverpool canal from my pre teen years, because it was local, and the only place I could get to. It was dirty, like most canals in big towns, and the crowd of us that fished it, would have minnow matches, and get excited it one of us caught a roach of a few ounces. This was the case until i was considered old enough to travel, either by bus, or on my bike, to place further a field. During those years, the canal changed, the barges became a rarer sight, as the various canal side industries relied more on road transport. The water became cleaner, and the species both in number and size increased, as fish moved down from the rural spring fed stretches. This coupled with the improvement in our own angling skills, meant that over time we had bigger and more varied catches. These changes were in most part natural, and apart from a stocking of bream up Rodley way, in the very early 70s, the only heavy stocking I heard of was that of the now ubiquitous carp, in the 80/90s.
This applied to the gravel pits, and reservoirs I fished, occasional small stockings of fish, but not the mass stockings that happened as a consequence of the carp fever that occurred just after the rise in popularity of the 'commercial' scene.
Trust you to bring age into the discussion, it makes a change from your usual 'rose tinted glasses' reply. Age is not a prerequisite to thinking about the effects any changes have on my love of angling and nature, it's been there since my teens. I would hope that all anglers of whatever age shared at least some thought about the environment they spend their time in, and not just how many, and how big their catches are. The response to the Kingfisher thread provides some hope, as does your apparent ethical approach on the barbel in keepnets thread, even if in the light of some of your posts, it does seem a tad hypocritical.

John.
 

tipitinmick

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Just to add - as a match angler - from a total weight perspective, there is absolutely no doubt that commercials on average (and stocked "commerical type" lakes) are easier than rivers, canals and drains. Thats not to say that you can't get more bites and fish on "natural" waters - often you can.
Equally - there are easy rivers and not so easy rivers.
Why anyone would try to pretend otherwise is difficult to understand.

personally I like variety in my match fishing and the test of a range of techniques and approaches.
There's a stretch of river near to me that I think is as close to optimum for match fishing as it gets ... through the season you can frame from pretty much any peg on the stretch - but on any given day you may need to catch chub, barbel, roach, dace, perch or bream (or a combination) to get the most out of the peg. You may need waggler, stick, feeder, bomb, whip or pole. Usual winning weights are between 15 and 25 pounds - although it can throw up to 70 very occasionally.

But i still don't go to that venue all of the time as I like variety!
Sounds like the Ancholme does that 🤣🤣. Thought I’d won a match at Cake Mills one day with 26lb of roach. I’m swaggering up to the car park telling everyone how I bagged on hemp and tares to be faced with five anglers having between 40 and 73lb of bream. I was gutted. 🤣🤣
 

Silverfisher

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Sounds like the Ancholme does that 🤣🤣. Thought I’d won a match at Cake Mills one day with 26lb of roach. I’m swaggering up to the car park telling everyone how I bagged on hemp and tares to be faced with five anglers having between 40 and 73lb of bream. I was gutted. 🤣🤣
Haha I reckon the guys who came second and third on a Thames match near me on Sunday must have felt that way. A late chub on top of a load of roach took one of them to 27lb but and the other had 28lb of all roach but someone comfortably beat them both with 37lb of bream! Reckon even the guy in fourth with 23lb of roach must have thought he’d at least be top 3.
 

Total

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Sounds like the Ancholme does that 🤣🤣. Thought I’d won a match at Cake Mills one day with 26lb of roach. I’m swaggering up to the car park telling everyone how I bagged on hemp and tares to be faced with five anglers having between 40 and 73lb of bream. I was gutted. 🤣🤣

^^Been there, done that...:ROFLMAO:......It won't stop that 'swaggering' the next time it happens...:giggle:
 

NoCarpPlease

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Sounds like the Ancholme does that 🤣🤣. Thought I’d won a match at Cake Mills one day with 26lb of roach. I’m swaggering up to the car park telling everyone how I bagged on hemp and tares to be faced with five anglers having between 40 and 73lb of bream. I was gutted. 🤣🤣
Warwickshire Avon Mick - completely different stretch to Evesham in just about every way imaginable!
 

Zerkalo

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Zerkalo you should do what you want to do and the only person you have to please is yourself.
It all comes down to circumstances and what you want from your fishing.

Here’s the same Chub caught 4 times across 2 different sessions. It put me right off for a while and was rightly called a bit of a ‘manky’ Chub. Not in the best condition at that time of the season I think, so I decided it wasn’t for me for a while. Now I’ve got a taste for it again and am catching different varieties of fish there and think small stream Weir fishing is as an as enjoyable part of my fishing repertoire as any other including commercials, like you say if you enjoy it then that's the most important thing for me.

2020-06-28 06.06.58.jpg 2020-06-28 09.49.30.jpg 2020-07-05 15.32.10.jpg 2020-07-05 16.03.43-6.jpg

Now if it was Pike or something I was having repeat catches of I'd think even more twice about it but I don't fish for Pike so.
 

alsur

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Sounds like the Ancholme does that 🤣🤣. Thought I’d won a match at Cake Mills one day with 26lb of roach. I’m swaggering up to the car park telling everyone how I bagged on hemp and tares to be faced with five anglers having between 40 and 73lb of bream. I was gutted. 🤣🤣
Last time I fish Ancholme was a very long time ago I had a few Roach for about half a pound, not bad well worth the 220 mile drive. It was a team match and I did get reasonable points and team won match so worth it in the end.
 

tipitinmick

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Warwickshire Avon Mick - completely different stretch to Evesham in just about every way imaginable!
Don’t mention Evesham. I’ve had some proper disasters there. To the point where it’s crossed my mind to put my gear on eBay. I must be the only angler in the country that can’t get over 2lb out of that damn stretch. Fill it in. Make a B road out of it. 🤣🤣🤣
 

Silverfisher

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It's out of that pond in his back garden
Funny you should say that as I was fishing a commercial a couple weeks ago (on that day a flipping hard commercial!) catching tiny rudd thinking to myself I’ve paid £10 to catch tiny rudd out of a pond I could cast across when I could have done that in the garden 😂
 

Lee Richards

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John I am 54 and probably not that far away from you in years..
If you are going to quote "rose tinted glasses" then in your harking back to the past you have done exactly that

Fishing now is not about what has gone before but what we can do now to ensure we sustain and if possible grow the sport.
You are seeing everything from your perspective and have not given any consideration to what those coming into the sport want.
They might not want the same as you and have the struggles most of us endured in the past..
They want something that they can enjoy from the very start and with that if they so choose broaden their experience..

And yes I did mention age because in physical years we are probably close but in the realisation of what those coming into fishing need and want we are decades apart.
 

NoCarpPlease

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John I am 54 and probably not that far away from you in years..
If you are going to quote "rose tinted glasses" then in your harking back to the past you have done exactly that

Fishing now is not about what has gone before but what we can do now to ensure we sustain and if possible grow the sport.
You are seeing everything from your perspective and have not given any consideration to what those coming into the sport want.
They might not want the same as you and have the struggles most of us endured in the past..
They want something that they can enjoy from the very start and with that if they so choose broaden their experience..

And yes I did mention age because in physical years we are probably close but in the realisation of what those coming into fishing need and want we are decades apart.
I agree with the sentiment you express here Lee - the world has changed a lot in our time fishing.
However - are "want" and "need" equivalent. I'd say there is also the danger of making it too easy, so new anglers maybe won't get the same sense of overcoming a challenge that we have experienced?
 

Lee Richards

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But does that matter NCP,angling is about doing something you enjoy and not making it an endurance sport.

The challenge can be whatever you want it to be but looking back at my own fishing past I would rather have the options I have now than I had thirty years ago.
 

NoCarpPlease

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Only if the goal is to increase participation for the long term.

Some (many?) anglers would be quite happy with the opposite of that anyway.

And, to be fair, I don't actively do anything to promote increased participation myself at this time (other than paying in to the Angling Trust).
 

DontKillZander

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John I am 54 and probably not that far away from you in years..
If you are going to quote "rose tinted glasses" then in your harking back to the past you have done exactly that

Fishing now is not about what has gone before but what we can do now to ensure we sustain and if possible grow the sport.
You are seeing everything from your perspective and have not given any consideration to what those coming into the sport want.
They might not want the same as you and have the struggles most of us endured in the past..
They want something that they can enjoy from the very start and with that if they so choose broaden their experience..

And yes I did mention age because in physical years we are probably close but in the realisation of what those coming into fishing need and want we are decades apart.

I agree with the sentiment you express here Lee - the world has changed a lot in our time fishing.
However - are "want" and "need" equivalent. I'd say there is also the danger of making it too easy, so new anglers maybe won't get the same sense of overcoming a challenge that we have experienced?

With regards to new anglers I doubt much has changed in terms of how they're getting into the sport, I reckon you'll be hard pressed to find many people who wet their first lines on a commercial.

Besides where ever your dad / grandad first took you as a kid, I think the first port of call for somebody getting into angling is still the local canals and ponds... at that point - personally I don't think catches make much of an impact, we all know there's a lot more to angling than landing a fish and I don't think that is what makes or breaks an prospective angler.

If anything I think a struggle to catch is going to spark more curiosity and sense of challenge than it is going to put somebody off.

Imagine catching even 20lb on commercial on your first day of fishing... you'll be like "right I've done fishing, what's next? cycling...? rock climbing...?" having learnt and understood next to nothing about the sport.
 
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tipitinmick

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But does that matter NCP,angling is about doing something you enjoy and not making it an endurance sport.

The challenge can be whatever you want it to be but looking back at my own fishing past I would rather have the options I have now than I had thirty years ago.
What options Lee ? It was hard, hard or hard if I remember rightly. 🤣🤣
 
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