Club committee.

Northantslad

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Sounds to me that as is sometimes the case, there are a few that actually run the club and influence 'the committee'. Looking at the response you got, it does seem there are some in your club who wish the rule in place.
 

Cobweb

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Thanks for the replies. I'm not really sure how things will go if I'm honest. It's almost like a bunch of mates have got together and now run a club, and what they say goes with no regard to the correct procedures. I'll give them their due, they'll all stick together.

I re-joined 4 years ago and couldn't make the AGM for that season and we haven't had one for the last 2 seasons. At no time since I joined have I been party to the club accounts, and as far as I'm aware, neither has anyone else. Over 600 members, paying £50 a year. A lot of money to account for. For the record, I don't believe anything untoward is happening but it would just be nice to see where the membership fees are being spent.
Strange that there appears to be no accountability to the members. There are a number of question marks hanging over this which are definitely worth pursuing. The "If you don't like it take a hike" response you mentioned infers at the very least an organisation which believes it is not accountable in any way for it's actions to members. It seems to me that you do have the right to expose the conduct of officers and committee members. How you go about doing this is unclear, but I wish you luck in rising to the challenge
 

Cobweb

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I think some how there as been a get together of some committee members and a decision was made to alter the rules. This should not have happened and surely is against the constitution rules.
In my experience of what goes on during committee meetings, sadly, such occurrences are not as rare as they should be. This is not through a deliberate act of dictatorship, more often through ignorance of what their powers are, and good intentions - which someone once said pave the road to disaster.

A good Secretary would prevent such accidents which could well have repercussions
 

Stewie74

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You could suggest conducting the AGM/EGM on Zoom, something my golf club has done with a membership of 1400.
 

Arch

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At the moment, I'm ploughing a lone furrow and without anyone else getting on board with me, I doubt I'll make any headway. Generally, people just aren't bothered, and with the absence of an AGM or similar, I only have the clubs FB page to raise my concerns. All I get then is a "pile on Arch" by other members of the Committee, it gets quite depressing replying to badly written and worded replies that basically contain the just "lump it or leave" and sarcastic comments.
 

Team KDB

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Arch, 600 members paying £50 a year to me is a big club to treat you in that manner,could you ask the secretary for a copy of the constitution and rules and a full report from the last AGM with an audited account of the books and a balance sheet for you to look at,it might shake them up to take you seriously.
In the meantime put it in writing to the secretary and have someone seconded the request for a EGM and keep a copy.
 

Arch

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The constitution is on their website. no mention of how an EGM would be organised, and I think It would be denied as they wouldn't even know what one was.
Rule 11 states.

11, Any proposal that requires a change of the rules must be made in writing to the Secretary at least fourteen days prior to the A.G.M.



That to me means a vote would have to take place after a proposal was received. However, the Secretary says otherwise. See my OP.
 

Team KDB

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Arch i have been reading every post 😉 and even offered advice.
Good luck in your stand against the committee and keep the faith. 😁
 

Cobweb

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At the moment, I'm ploughing a lone furrow and without anyone else getting on board with me, I doubt I'll make any headway. Generally, people just aren't bothered, and with the absence of an AGM or similar, I only have the clubs FB page to raise my concerns. All I get then is a "pile on Arch" by other members of the Committee, it gets quite depressing replying to badly written and worded replies that basically contain the just "lump it or leave" and sarcastic comments.
It might be the right time to take a small step back and try and look at the problem objectively. Is there an organisation that the club belongs to membership of which is integral to their image? For example many clubs and associations are registered as friendly societies which have a regulator or a code of conduct. A possible angle to explore.

On the surface I can see how this particular issue might be regarded as a minor one by itself, but frequent, and maybe an increasing number of, breaches of the club's own standards of conduct by officers is a dark path that I suspect you are worried that the club is now walking along.

I think it's true as far as the fishing clubs and associations I have come across, that "committees" and officers tend to make up rules as they go along without referring to constitutional issues or (b) UK law. (Often they do not have the knowledge to apply before making any decision and will resent anyone pointing out their oversights - a human thing)

Personally I much prefer the day ticket fishing option these days - thus maximising my enjoyment of the session, and minimising the effect of local club politics., I used to get my ear'ole bent every time I went to a club water, usually by "Officers" with a hugely inflated view of their own self worth, ability, and importance

I do feel for you and hope that you reach a decision soon on how you are going to proceed (or not) - less worry - more enjoyable fishing :cool:
 
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Dropon

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In the past I have been an auditor for 2 fishing clubs, 1 was a pub based club, reasonable small but do to good fundraising quite a wealth club. The other was a much larger organisation with assets of many thousands of pounds and also owners of land
 

Cobweb

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The constitution is on their website. no mention of how an EGM would be organised, and I think It would be denied as they wouldn't even know what one was.
Rule 11 states.

11, Any proposal that requires a change of the rules must be made in writing to the Secretary at least fourteen days prior to the A.G.M.



That to me means a vote would have to take place after a proposal was received. However, the Secretary says otherwise. See my OP.
To me that seems to imply that whatever the proposal is (I'm assuming that the letter's contents qualify to be put forward for consideration by members), it will either be raised at the AGM or not. You would normally be notified of the outcome of your request. Is there nothing in the "rules" that deals with urgent situations? During Covid a lot of clubs have had to think on their feet and respond to government restrictions and local woke pressure groups quickly. There has often not been enough time to even to consult with members, let alone seek their approval! Such changes are heralded in some way though, commonly via email or social media _ (cheapest way to get the message out)
 

Arch

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My understanding of rule 11 is that if a proposal is raised in the correct manner, and received by the Secretary 14 days before the AGM, the proposal will be heard before the membership present at the AGM, and a vote taken on the proposal. The Secretary's view (I think) is that the proposal will be noted, but any vote will be made by the committee, rather than the membership.

Just to let you know what I'm having to deal with. I've just looked back at the FB discussion, and re-read the Secretary's post to see he's had 4 "likes" for it. All 4 are from committee members.

I don't stand much of a chance.
 

Northantslad

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Can see things both ways in this situation and without suggesting that is what we have here but by way of contrast to my first post in this one, having ran a club and also having just been a turn up, fish, go home match angler also.....

Sounds like this is a fishery club rather than match club but the dynamics are the same, so throw this in there:

When running a club i used to work on the value of someone's opinion being proportional to the effort they put in helping out. This can lead to suggestions of a dictatorship, but usually by the people with plenty to say but do nothing by way of helping out-equivalent of this in a fishery club may be the turnouts on working parties perhaps.

When i'd had enough of being the 'dictator', booking the venues people wanted, pegging the venue (sometimes the day before to save time) , recording the results, sorting out club clothing, sorting out end of season trophies etc etc.....

..........i went and fished a couple of seasons with a club, where i turned up, drew my peg, helped if asked to, but never complained about anything and kept away from meetings too.
 

Arch

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Over the years, I've invested quite a lot of my time to our club, what with being on their committee years ago and doing lots of work parties. I've also invested some of my own money in buying materials for peg numbers and then installing them. The club was on it's knees 10 years ago, and this Secretary has done a good job of getting it to where it is today, and for that he needs thanking. The issue I have is that there is a right way to go about running the club and a wrong way. Major issues (IMO) should go before the membership at an AGM, this hasn't happened in regards to the keepnet ban. In the absence of an AGM the keepnet ban should have been postponed until the club could have safely organised one, then let the membership decide.

I'd imagine the subs will go up for next season, but that won't be voted on by the membership either, which I think it should. The results of either vote isn't the issue, It's the fact the membership have been allowed to vote on them and not just the committee.
 

rudd

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Thanks for the replies. I'm not really sure how things will go if I'm honest. It's almost like a bunch of mates have got together and now run a club, and what they say goes with no regard to the correct procedures. I'll give them their due, they'll all stick together.

I re-joined 4 years ago and couldn't make the AGM for that season and we haven't had one for the last 2 seasons. At no time since I joined have I been party to the club accounts, and as far as I'm aware, neither has anyone else. Over 600 members, paying £50 a year. A lot of money to account for. For the record, I don't believe anything untoward is happening but it would just be nice to see where the membership fees are being spent.
Ask to have accounts audited, this protects committee members from suspicion and the club itself.
Organised criminal gangs use any form of account they can for money laundering.
If committee refuse notify your local constabulary of possible fraud.
 

rudd

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Can see things both ways in this situation and without suggesting that is what we have here but by way of contrast to my first post in this one, having ran a club and also having just been a turn up, fish, go home match angler also.....

Sounds like this is a fishery club rather than match club but the dynamics are the same, so throw this in there:

When running a club i used to work on the value of someone's opinion being proportional to the effort they put in helping out. This can lead to suggestions of a dictatorship, but usually by the people with plenty to say but do nothing by way of helping out-equivalent of this in a fishery club may be the turnouts on working parties perhaps.

When i'd had enough of being the 'dictator', booking the venues people wanted, pegging the venue (sometimes the day before to save time) , recording the results, sorting out club clothing, sorting out end of season trophies etc etc.....

..........i went and fished a couple of seasons with a club, where i turned up, drew my peg, helped if asked to, but never complained about anything and kept away from meetings too.
Did the same mate, club politics, seat box senators, bivvy barons - all think running a club is easy and all think their view should be heard.
After walking away the committee turned on itself, now there isn't one as every one resigned and no one else could be arsed!

Had a heated discussion on line today. Some members (non match types who use livebaits) want keepnets banned so all fish are returned straight away. I pointed out that means specimens cannot be weighed and photographed then as all fish should be instantly released.
Lead balloon moment that 😯
 

Cobweb

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With the greatest respect, conducting a campaign on social media is not perhaps the best way to go about resolving a grievance. From what you have said, and from the particular issue you raise, I'm getting the vibe that the problem from your standpoint is one of constitutional leapfrogging, rather than any suspected criminal activity or general negligence.

Circumstances a year on from the impact of Covid has put the whole country in a state of continuing flux, and every organisation and individual has had to constantly re-think how to react in their own and what they believe to be other(s) best interest. The issues you raise are important, but my question is this

Is this the best time to air them?
 

Cobweb

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Have a look at this email from one of my local clubs/associations which popped up in my inbox within in the last 10 minutes


AGM 2021​

Dear member,​

I hope this email finds you well.

As explained in an earlier newsletter, the current Covid -19 restrictions mean that it is not possible to hold a physical AGM as we had planned.
After some discussion, and noting that the regulations do allow us to skip an AGM, the committee decided, for the sake of transparency, to provide members with exactly the information that would have been available at a physical AGM, but in e-mail form. At a normal AGM, the club normally has fewer than 50 attendees. This email will reach more than 850.
The major issue with this approach, is that it is not possible to hold a vote for the committee or for rule changes. I hope you feel this has been adequately dealt with in the documentation provided.
Whilst none of the information provided is secret, the committee asks that the information, especially on the club finances, remains within the club.
As at all other times, the committee is available for questioning at any time by email or through the Facebook page.
The committee would like to express their thanks to the members for helping us through this difficult and unusual time.
Lets hope we can all meet again soon,​

 

bagpuss

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I served on the committee of a large north west club, i would imagine most clubs constitutions are similar using a standard template and tweaking to the specific needs of the club. Regards changing rules at the agm most would allow for such proposals but in the finer details it would also accommodate for the committee to change the rules as and when they see fit. Running a club with hundreds or thousands of members looking after the upkeep of scores of waters and only being able to change the rules at a AGM would be a major handicap, for example the Covid-19 pandemic being a classic case.
 

Arch

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I fully appreciate the last year and a half have been difficult with regards the pandemic. I would have preferred the rule to ban keepnets to have been left until a time that a proper AGM could have been held, but if the Secretary sticks to his guns, then the membership will never be able to decide on any rule.

That's all. I feel the decision could have waited.
 
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