Casting And Feeding To A Clip In Deep Water

[mattnewark]

Was thinking about this in bed last night (as you do!) and I just can't work it out in my head so.....

Basically, if I cast out a method feeder into a big deep lake that is say 15 ft deep, I hit the clip and it obviously takes a few seconds to hit the bottom. My assumption is that the feeder has fallen in an arc towards me (no idea how far it's come back towards me). Secondly, if I wanted to chuck, say just a couple of spombs of bait over the top (as it's winter), my question is, how far short of the feeder hitting the water do I need to be to ensure the feeder is being fished over the spodded area?

I have this concern that if I just fished both at the same distance, my feed will be like 5 yards or more beyond where the feeder has settled?

Any advice to getting this right regarding the fall rate and feeding spots?

Confused!

 

[jononcb]

I suppose you have to hit the clip with the rod positioned sort behind you, so that gives you more line to play with, to compensate for the depth?!
If that makes sense lol.

 

[smiffy]

If I’ve fed a spot I’ll always try to cast my feeder to that spot and only clip up once my feeder has hit the bottom. So in effect my feeder will cast slightly further than my balls of groundbait have landed. Just let the feeder have line as it sinks.
To be honest I’d rather spend half an hour chucking a big feeder and emptying it on my chosen spot. Gives me more confidence
If you want to feed over the top I think you’ve got to expect to lose a bit of accuracy. Where your feeder settles has a few variables but in 15ft of water you’re never going to be far away if you chuck your spomb a couple of feet short of your feeder chuck. Distance will make a difference to the arc. I don’t think it hurts to spread the bait about a bit.

 

[crumpercatcher.]

The spomb opens as it hits the surface and your bait starts falling through the water. Depending on the tow it could pull your bait away from you, towards you or to the left or right. Plus the bait disperses out as it falls through the water column.

ROB HUGHES: Where to clip your spod rod in relation to your hookbait — Carpfeed

 

[crackatoa]

The first thing to worry about is keeping the feed on a method feeder if it has to fall 15'. If it does come off, chances are it won't land near the feeder and bait. Also why would you want to introduce extra feed in Winter?

 

[Zerkalo]

I made a thread about clipping up in deep water before, and other than hitting the clip with the rod behind you to compensate, I was told via a diagram that the arc would be minimal anyway, not 5 yards more like a couple of foot. I always clip up now and don't feel as though the arc makes a difference, and that's with an open end feeder, I'd assume with a method feeder you're hoping your bait is still in tact on the feeder so would make even less of a difference in that sense. I don't spomb though, I use a catapult if I'm going to loose feed and you get a natural spread from that anyway.

 

[alsur]

If you want to get bait out use a bait up feeder

 

[Godber]

We used to put bits of polystyrene in the feeder first cast and once they popped to the surface we would ball in on top. Obviously tow wind and skim has an adverse affect.
I would clip up the spomb at the same number of turns as your method feeder but just hold the rod at different positions as it hits the clip to get a bit of a spread.

 

[mattnewark]

Open end/Method feeder...either one really.

That Rob Hughes article makes for interesting reading and has really opened my eyes. I tend to fish this big deep lake in the closed season when the rivers are closed as there's loads of big bream in there as well.

I've always been worried about using too much feed in the winter as I've used a block-end maggot feeder in the coldest of days and had a few skimmers and Perch.

I was thinking of chucking out a small boilie or maggot clip over a few spots of corn/chops/dead maggot etc, for some of the big bream or a decent carp.

 

[Zerkalo]

A quote from the thread I made. Might be of interest. It was to me.

For those of you who seem to be overthinking this, in most cases the swingback from a feeder is relatively small in all but the most extreme cases.

Take the following scenario, showing a cross section of a simplified swim:


Let us assume, that the angler casts from a point C on the bank and casts a feeder 60m out to the lake surface on a tight line, the feeder hits the surface at point L and swings down on a tight line to rest on the bottom at point R in 3m of water - 60m diagonally from point C. Directly above point R is point E, the effective distance that the feeder is effectively fishing. The question then becomes, how far is point E (the effective fishing point) from the landing point, L, since this is the distance that the feeder has swung back from it's landing point, and potentially the distance between a falling cloud of bait and the rig.

Well fortunately, in our idealised solution we have a simple right angled triangle formed by the points C, E and R.

We know the length CR (60m), and ER (3m), so by using a bit of Pythagoras' hypothesis (I refuse to call it a theorem since he was unable to prove it) we can work out that CE is 59.92m. Given that the cast was originally 60m, we can therefore work out that the feeder has swung back by a massive 0.08m or 8cm. Which is practical terms is nothing - if you allow for some variability in casting accuracy, line stretch, wind, line arcing, and/or bounce the difference is negligible.

However there are scenarios where this could be a major factor - particularly in short cast, deep water scenarios. Be way of illustration, please find below a table showing the swing back distances (in metres and percentages) for a range of distances and depths:



I've included the extreme case of fishing at 10m distance in 10m of water to show the extreme case (and test the formula), since in this case on a swimming pool profiled lake you would expect the feeder to end up under your feet. In general terms though, unless the water is very deep (say a quarter or more of the distance you are casting) you probably have nothing to worry about.

#spanky #mathsisfun #idontknowwhatahashtagis

 

[alsur]

If you really want to know just use Pythagoras

 

[mattnewark]

For the record, I'm s**t at Math, but just about managed to get my head round the whole Pythag stuff

 

[richox12]

I made a thread about clipping up in deep water before, and other than hitting the clip with the rod behind you to compensate, I was told via a diagram that the arc would be minimal anyway, not 5 yards more like a couple of foot.

Exactly that. 30m distance in 5m of water is about 42cm - assuming everything else is in exactly the same position each time. Hitting the clip with rod up and even behind you and 'feathering' it down is good practice.

 

[mattnewark]

So would it be fair to say, so far, that if I launch my feeder out and it hits the clip with my rod parrarel to the bank i 15 ft of water, I would then repeat the process with the spomb rod, but clip up a couple of foot short then?

In a round about sort of way?

 

[spanky]

A quote from the thread I made. Might be of interest. It was to me.

I'd listen to this guy if I were you - he makes a lot of sense.

 

[spanky]

So would it be fair to say, so far, that if I launch my feeder out and it hits the clip with my rod parrarel to the bank i 15 ft of water, I would then repeat the process with the spomb rod, but clip up a couple of foot short then?

In a round about sort of way?

It depends upon the total distance of the cast, but yes if you're casting 40-60 metres out, it'll swing back about a foot under ideal circumstances, so clipping up a foot short might be advisable. However, when you allow for variation in casting accuracy, splashdown, bait spread etc. it may not make that much difference - you'll still be fishing with your bait on the carpet of feed.

 

[mattnewark]

Certainly interesting reading this thread, peoples theories/science, and then watching the Rob Hughes video where the guys clips up etc.

Interesting stuff.

 

[mattnewark]

Digressing slightly, the volume of feed, particularly in winter, has always been one of using very little etc.

It's amazing how much, say 5 tins of corn would look on the lake bottom (not much at all spread over a 3ft area), yet I'd not use 5 tins a day even in the summer!

Feeding amounts is a whole new subject for another time.

 

[richox12]

So would it be fair to say, so far, that if I launch my feeder out and it hits the clip with my rod parrarel to the bank i 15 ft of water, I would then repeat the process with the spomb rod, but clip up a couple of foot short then?

In a round about sort of way?

Depends if you think 2ft actually matters. Bait from the Spomb will spread on descending I'd have thought.

 

[mattnewark]

The lighter the bait, the further the spread yes.