Carp above 8lbs

Silverfisher

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I would say a factor in whether silverfish/mixed/not overly carpy stillwaters do well would be how much the are actually needed in a given area.

I only really fish Stillwaters for silvers in the closed seasons as I've got the rivers for silvers the rest of the year and a lot of anglers I see and speak to have the same attitude for a multitude of reasons. When I fish stillwaters in the closed seasons there will generally be one or two others fishing for silvers or other non carp species but invariably if I go back onto such waters in the river season it's all carp anglers as the silvers/mixed species anglers have moved onto the rivers. So a carp free water here or in similar places would probably only see sustained footfall for the closed season and I guess maybe a bit in winter when the rivers flooded. Even at such times a few will still prefer other options like the canal and fluff chucking. But I guess by comparison an area with less good river, canal, fly, sea or whatever fishing might be able to sustain a non carp lake more.

I personally don't think there's any need for carp free lakes I just believe that their should always be a few waters left where the carp to other species balance is reflective of a natural big fish to small fish biomass for those that like their fishing more as nature intended.
 

RMNDIL

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The river match scene somehow managed to keep a core of die hards that didn't jump ship with the rise of commercials. The snag being that their average age is increasing year on year and their numbers slowly dwindling.
Sums up the Thames
 

Anglingman

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lots of me me me on here.......if your going to be a match angler you fish and adapt to the situation you are confronted with.
I am gobsmacked someone mentioned a catch of (natural !) bream trumping a few great nets of Roach
What's next ? Roach only match ? no fish over 3oz ?

The biggest issue facing match anglers is declining commercial match venues, especially here in the south where lots of venues are
changing over to specimen angling. To ask for a lake totally dedicated to match size fish would mean that lake being used on a regular basis and not just for a match once or twice a week which just isn't the case. The larger fish have to be present to cater for all sectors to maximise benefit and preserve the fisheries. The demise of the silvers only venues in lots of places clearly demonstrate this.....

And what would be the suggestion for a natural venue that has 20lb+ carp in them or 15lb barbel, remove them as well just in case one turns up and "ruins" 14lb of whip caught bleak ?

If you don't like the game don't play....
 

Silverfisher

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lots of me me me on here.......if your going to be a match angler you fish and adapt to the situation you are confronted with.
I am gobsmacked someone mentioned a catch of (natural !) bream trumping a few great nets of Roach
What's next ? Roach only match ? no
I didn’t say there was anything wrong with it. Just said I felt for the guys that had catches of a lifetime but still didn’t win. And that I didn’t feel for them that much as they still had great sessions and still got a few quid haha
 

chefster

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lots of me me me on here.......if your going to be a match angler you fish and adapt to the situation you are confronted with.
I am gobsmacked someone mentioned a catch of (natural !) bream trumping a few great nets of Roach
What's next ? Roach only match ? no fish over 3oz ?

The biggest issue facing match anglers is declining commercial match venues, especially here in the south where lots of venues are
changing over to specimen angling. To ask for a lake totally dedicated to match size fish would mean that lake being used on a regular basis and not just for a match once or twice a week which just isn't the case. The larger fish have to be present to cater for all sectors to maximise benefit and preserve the fisheries. The demise of the silvers only venues in lots of places clearly demonstrate this.....

And what would be the suggestion for a natural venue that has 20lb+ carp in them or 15lb barbel, remove them as well just in case one turns up and "ruins" 14lb of whip caught bleak ?

If you don't like the game don't play....
Basically what it amounts to , is a certain few on here, say they don’t like fishing for carp, only want to fish for silvers, and blame carp for them packing in matchfishing, and ruining fisheries, they always do it on every thread , 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
 

Zerkalo

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When I used to fish club matches we would always fish different lines, mostly on canals but it applies elsewhere, so we would always have a chopped worm and caster line for bigger fish, but they were quite rare in those days compared to how many canals are now, so when someone caught a bonus fish it was fair play but likely to win the match.

There probably are quite a few Silvers lake around here, I've been told about a few but have settled on a few small Carp fisheries, one even fishes silvers matches in winter but I fish maggot there and catch small Carp so go figure... 🤷‍♂️ I actually quite like catching stockies, it's like a golden period of a year or two for many fisheries I've fished where the Carp are small and easy to catch. As a kid I even used to fish the small stock pond at Moorlands that was so small when you hooked a fish it would swim the perimeter of the lake.
 

spanky

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Ultimately match fishing is not fair and you always run the risk on a natural water of being trumped by one or two large fish (whether fished for or not). This happened a lot in early Fisho qualifiers which I suspect is why they moved over to commercials. This is less a problem in commercials where one 20lb carp may not make a huge difference in three-figure winning weights.

You can always adjust the rules if you want to - carp don't count, big fish only count as 1lb, or if I recall a report of a match in Belgium on points - you get so many for weight and one per fish, which rewards hard work for silvers over the odd bonus skimmers. At the end of the day you need to decide what you want to do, you are free to change the rules if you want to.
 

mickthechippy

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An ideal match lake locally has a varied stocking of all types of fish

theres carps up to 30lbish, sturgeons that go 20lb plus, big shoals of roach and bream of all sizes

its one of the few places where a dedicated silvers angler can get his head down, work hard, catch quick and can beat the carpers at thier own game

silvers nets in 5 hr matches can exceed 60lb if your good and quick, 40 to 50lb nets are within the reach of more average anglers like me (and Ive done it)

you sets yer stall out and fish how yer want there, knowing that you gotta fair chance of a envelope, no matter what your after
 

smiffy

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lots of me me me on here.......if your going to be a match angler you fish and adapt to the situation you are confronted with.
I am gobsmacked someone mentioned a catch of (natural !) bream trumping a few great nets of Roach
What's next ? Roach only match ? no fish over 3oz ?

The biggest issue facing match anglers is declining commercial match venues, especially here in the south where lots of venues are
changing over to specimen angling. To ask for a lake totally dedicated to match size fish would mean that lake being used on a regular basis and not just for a match once or twice a week which just isn't the case. The larger fish have to be present to cater for all sectors to maximise benefit and preserve the fisheries. The demise of the silvers only venues in lots of places clearly demonstrate this.....

And what would be the suggestion for a natural venue that has 20lb+ carp in them or 15lb barbel, remove them as well just in case one turns up and "ruins" 14lb of whip caught bleak ?

If you don't like the game don't play....
Maybe the decline of commercial match venues is their own fault? You have to be honest and admit these venues are pretty one dimensional. Maybe a change to a fairer venue,as Mick described, is what’s called for. Also it’s a geographical thing. Carp fishing is massive down here. There’s probably more money to be made from the specimen guys.
 

Anglingman

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I never said the decline was anyone's fault....I said it was a challenge facing us, adding further stipulations would only hasten that decline.

One dimensional ? Isn't the OP's question and subsequent responses in the main about them being more diverse than required, ie removing lumps thereby limiting approaches ? Surely this makes them much more singular ?
 

RMNDIL

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In the past big WL matches etc in Oxfordshire used to be very often pegged so that the fliers were not used or off-pegged. This was supposed to make the matches fairer - so less chance of a 'fluke' result etc. But the majority of anglers fishing knew their team was never going to win but went for individual glory. They went to have the chance of drawing the flier and having a great day and a payday. Once their chance of drawing was removed those anglers, which made up the numbers and made them big matches, dwindled and stopped going. Hence no big matches. It's not the only contributing factor but a big one. It was short sighted because over the course of 6 rounds the best team(s) were always going to win. So what if there was a flier (or 2) in your section and you couldn't beat it. There were still 10 others to fish against for points.
 

smiffy

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I never said the decline was anyone's fault....I said it was a challenge facing us, adding further stipulations would only hasten that decline.

One dimensional ? Isn't the OP's question and subsequent responses in the main about them being more diverse than required, ie removing lumps thereby limiting approaches ? Surely this makes them much more singular ?
And,maybe,fisheries like the one Mick describes, is the answer to that challenge?
It would certainly give people options on what to target. Which they haven’t got now. Which is what makes it all one dimensional.
 

Silverfisher

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In the past big WL matches etc in Oxfordshire used to be very often pegged so that the fliers were not used or off-pegged. This was supposed to make the matches fairer - so less chance of a 'fluke' result etc. But the majority of anglers fishing knew their team was never going to win but went for individual glory. They went to have the chance of drawing the flier and having a great day and a payday. Once their chance of drawing was removed those anglers, which made up the numbers and made them big matches, dwindled and stopped going. Hence no big matches. It's not the only contributing factor but a big one. It was short sighted because over the course of 6 rounds the best team(s) were always going to win. So what if there was a flier (or 2) in your section and you couldn't beat it. There were still 10 others to fish against for points.
How big were the summer and winter league matches (latter is autumn league really as its over by December these days!) back in their prime? Seem to still be decent turn outs now with something like 12 teams of 4 being the average nowadays.
 

smiffy

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They used to be teams of twelve. Smallest we had was 120pegs. The practice matches could be even bigger. The leagues were as big as how many teams wanted to fish. I think they tried teams of ten to halt the decline. I moved more to the open circuit and lost touch with team events.

Summer league for me was the Drennan. Might have had Ten teams in my region including Essex County and Team Image. Matches were something like 80-120 pegs. Can’t remember if it was teams of twelve or ten. Could have been eight😂
Was weird fishing in East Anglia and you could have the likes of Milsom and Swinscoe sitting next to you. That was Essex County for you though.
 
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Silverfisher

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They used to be teams of twelve. Smallest we had was 120pegs. The practice matches could be even bigger. The leagues were as big as how many teams wanted to fish. I think they tried teams of ten to halt the decline. I moved more to the open circuit and lost touch with team events.
Blimey some long old walks required there then! I sometimes go walk medley when there's a match on and it's quite a distance from peg 1 to 48. I generally fish it on the section above the perch or at the furtherest down to the poplars and can't imagine lugging my gear any further to do the full 48 pegs let alone 120! I assume the 120 peg jobs were across multiple stretches to fit them in? Biggest matches I can think of nowadays is the Thames festival at 70 odd pegs but that's over 3 stretches.
 

smiffy

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There were some hikes yes. But that’s all we knew. Nothing beats some of the walks on the nationals though. It was a national on the Thames that made me pack them in. I honestly thought the old guy next to me was going to die he was that knackered. I helped him to his peg and asked a steward to keep an eye on him. Neither of us were ready to start at the all in. I do honestly see the benefits of commies😉😉 even if I think they’re unfair.
A lot of the Drennan league matches were on fen drains so there weren’t too many long walks as you could park close to your peg.
I did carry on fishing Nationals after the Thames😂😂
 

Silverfisher

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There were some hikes yes. But that’s all we knew. Nothing beats some of the walks on the nationals though. It was a national on the Thames that made me pack them in. I honestly thought the old guy next to me was going to die he was that knackered. I helped him to his peg and asked a steward to keep an eye on him. Neither of us were ready to start at the all in. I do honestly see the benefits of commies😉😉 even if I think they’re unfair.
A lot of the Drennan league matches were on fen drains so there weren’t too many long walks as you could park close to your peg.
Haha yeah I'm used to walks of a couple hundred yards or so maybe double that at times but I wouldn't want to be lugging my gear near a mile!
 

smiffy

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Haha yeah I'm used to walks of a couple hundred yards or so maybe double that at times but I wouldn't want to be lugging my gear near a mile!
Everybody had a barrow so if the path was tarmac or towpath then it was fine. Horse or Cow fields were the problem. They’re what killed you😉
 

RMNDIL

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How big were the summer and winter league matches (latter is autumn league really as its over by December these days!) back in their prime? Seem to still be decent turn outs now with something like 12 teams of 4 being the average nowadays.
12 teams of 4 ? That would have just been 4 sections. It was 12 teams of 12 so 144 pegs and with a waiting list of teams to join. I guess that would have been the same all over the country back then. Problem is if you had 144 peg matches now you would really struggle to fit them in with parking, access, boats etc etc. Thames used to have annual 300 - 400 peg individual matches (Vortex etc) let alone the Thames Champs & Upper Thames Champs team events. Even normal or 'small' ODAA team events were 25 teams of 4 etc
 

RMNDIL

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Silverfisher - matches at Clifton Hampden would be 90+ pegs and EVERYONE had to walk from the Barley Mow pub car park !
 
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