Braid ??

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mookie

mookie
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icon_smile_shy.gificon_smile_shy.gif Right lads...on to braid l have heard so much about this stuff, but how do you tie it to mainline for use as a hooklink, it seems very strong and difficult to tie...any suggestions....??? l have always been told say 5lb mainline to 2.6 hooklink etc so why use 5lb mainline to say 8lb braid???? Seems difficult to understand?icon_smile_blush.gificon_smile_blush.gifand lots oficon_smile_big.gificon_smile_big.gificon_smile_big.gif

Cheers........Mook
 

esox.20

04/11/01 - 12/10/15
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I have a problem getting my head around this to. According to King Keith(Arthur) you should incorporate a length of power gum between braid and the hook length. As the no stretch of braid is used primarily to enhance bite indication the powergum is there to help prevent any break offs.It seems to me that one undoes the other.
To further complicate matters as braid is thinner its recommended that the braid used is heaveier than the nylon you would use. ie as A pike man using 15lb nylon I should use 30/35 lb braid.In fact braid usually has two sets of figures on it the B.S. and its diameter giving the equivelent size in nylon.
As to knots the ones recommended are the palomar knot or the grinner knot. a double grinner used to join braid to nylon.

chill out go fishing
 

Newt

'Lures Rule!!'
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Mookie - FWIW, I use braid all the way thru. Otherwise, why bother with it. Right now, all my reels save one are spooled with PowerPro. Depending on the rod and the target fish,
bs / dia (mono equiv)
10lb/2lb
20lb/6lb
30lb/8lb

The reels spooled with the 10lb/2lb are u/l and call for line of no more than 6lb mono and they do great with the 10lb b/s - 2lb diameter stuff. It is possible I may damage the clutch since the reel calls for lighter line but I can live with that possibility.

Newt Vail
 

Ziptrev

05/10/01 - 18/10/02
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Mookie, As discussed tonight, I,ve followed Newts advice and I intend to use my new power braid straight through , for carp and firstly for Piking.
In both cases, there is no point in using any mono, Firstly in Piking, I shall attach braid straight to the eye of the trace swivel,with the Palomar John ESOX describes and in testing it at home, it doesnt cause any slippage problem.
For the Carp,there is a discussion that braid MAY cause abrasion or cuts to the fish in it rubbing on the line, but I,ve seen no pictures or evidence of this and regular braid users deny that it happens.
So to lose the advantage of the ultra fine presentation due to the thin diameter at the hook length seems to me silly. Also, the non-stretch factor will improve bite detection.
Although this is not normally a big problem with hungry carp, winter carp do take much more delicately , if at all!
In the summer, when carp are feeding well, I may try a longer hook length of braid , backed by a more stretchable mono to avoid shock snapping , but then again, the braid is much stronger for 1/2 the diameter and if the thicker ,springier mono puts them off biting!, Well you cant catch what wont take.
Finally, I intend to use lighter braid on the feeder, for much of my bream fishing this year, as long range feeder,or ledgering for bream, must have a much improved bite registration, due to the zero stretch factor.
I've bought the Power Pro on Newts advice, and it certainly seems the part.
Much smoother than the cheaper dyneema type braid I originally tried, which because of its roughness, caused a great deal of weed knots adhering to the line, which took ages to remove.
When spooling my reels, with 10, 20 and 30 lb Power Pro, I ran the line through my fingers to ensure tension on the reel, with no cuts or abrasions whatsoever.
Just like mono, there are good and bad braids.

Cheers Trev

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MALC

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Mookie must admitt i disagree to a point with Trev on this one.!!

First the good side.

I've been useing braid for 3 or 4 years now in on the reel in 6lb,8lb & 10lb depending on the distance and weight to be cast it's brilliant for bite detection from bream and roach and i think it's put more bream in my net than mono would.



But i dont us it as a hook length and never will.
I always use a long mono hooklength.

Now the bad side.

In the early days on Drayton Reservoir (about 4/5 years ago) i walked with the scales and help weigh in, and a lot of the fish caught that we weighed in were cut to pieces around the corners of the mouth,down the flanks and in the worse cases some even had pectal fins severed and you could see that it was fresh damage.

On enquiring with the anglers concerned about the state of the fish it turned out that most of them were on braid with either 6" or less mono hooklengths or braid straight through.

Now if the damage was soley down to the braid rubbing or was also down to the way the fish were played i dont know (and never will).
But it concerned me enougth to not fish the next match but to go along and watch.
I sat between 2 anglers all day, 1 was on braid and 1 was on mono, and every time they hooked a fish i watched and then checked the condition of the fish and at least 90% of the fish caught on braid was damaged (fresh) as oppossed to about 10% damaged on the mono.

Although i know it's not conclusive but it was enough for me to never use braid when knowingly after carp due to the way they fight.As i say though i do use it for bream but with a long hooklength.

I'm not saying don't use it for carp as many specimen hunters use it without any damage being done. Just if you do use it then bear in mind that you may need to change the way you play fish so as not to run the risk of damage.

As i say though those are just my personal views.
I now await the flack!! smash2.gif

I think this could well be a hot topic now flaming.gif

Malc
 

esox.20

04/11/01 - 12/10/15
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Mookie no flak from me I forgot all about that problem Duh!!!!! I have heard of several carp syndicates banning braid cos of this problem. I am in the process of getting some braid but this is for long range drifter fishing for pike.
Although I fish rivers in the summer I cant decide what to do in this situation as most of it is done at short range (casting less than 20yds.)Bite detection is not a problem in fact the reverse. i feel that braid used in this situation may lead to more smash offs (Barbel).
The other concern I have is rods locking up. This can happen if the line b.s. is above the rating for the rod so whats the true situation with braid???????? Perhaps this is where Newt can come in with the answer.

chill out go fishing
 

Ziptrev

05/10/01 - 18/10/02
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Lol Malc,
No flack from me! I think that you've made a very good point and taken the trouble to make keen observations. All credit to you.
However ,as Newt pointed out to me (and its been hard to find the stuff over here!) The new generation Superbraids , of which Power Pro is one, are very much less abrasive than the previous types of woven braid.
As I pointed out, my experience of the rough braid made me stop using it on the Trent as I collected so much tough weed along the line! Couldn't get the damn stuff off!
However, I wound this line on under tension and couldnt feel any wear or scraping on my fingertips and I feel it is as smooth as mono, or as close as makes no difference.
At 29.99 for 250 ms it aint cheap, but nothing thats good is!
Be assured, if I find a single sign of damage to any fish, I'll revert to mono, but I understand from current users that they have experienced no such problems.
Incidentally, Danny Hide on ANMC is offering a US braid from the same manufacturer at 10 per 300m in 8 and 15 bs + 1.50 p & p,but I dont know if thats as good!
Good Luck Mookie,
Its suck it and see time!


Trev



Cheers

Trev

Ziptrev your resident alcoholic2.gif

Edited by - Ziptrev on 01 February 2002 12:43:42 PM
 

Newt

'Lures Rule!!'
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Some additional thoughts.

Firstly to Esox: you spoke of a rod "locking up". I don't know what that means so can't comment but if you will hum a few bars, I will try to pick up the melody.

Nextly braid cutting fish: I can't speak for the traditional braid lines since I never used them. I started my "braid" use with Fireline which I liked fairly well for some applications. Later tried PowerPro on the recommendation (rave, actually) of an avid US angler whose judgement I trusted.

I am now totally converted to it with a couple of special-purpose exceptions where I need a line that is naturally heavy and sinks nicely. For that I use a fluorocarbon line since I am now accustomed to the lack of stretch.

FWIW, a traditional mono line will stretch to about 25%. The super lines like PowerPro are somewhere around 1-3% I think. Fluorocarbon is around 5%. Also, unlike mono which absorbs water and becomes slightly weaker (knot strength is affected) the super lines do not so I have more confidence in rigs done with them.

Fish damage with PowerPro: I have never seen it and based on the texture of the line, I would expect about the same results as with mono of a similar diameter. The main difference being that a mono of 2-3lb diameter is much more likely to break than a PowerPro of 10lb b/s and the same diameter. Somehow the idea of a fish towing around my hook and rig just doesn't set well. There is always going to be a trade-off and I prefer to risk the (to me) theoritical damage from my line than a break-off.

If I am fishing with a short, carbon lure rod (6-7ft) and a no-stretch line, I am a little more cautions when first getting a fish on as it is all to easy to put too much pressure on. If I am using a glass lure rod (which I much prefer for crank baits) there is less of a problem since they are never as "fast" as a good carbon rod. If I am using one of the Euro style long rods, I don't see a problem since the thing acts like a nice long shock absorber. And BTW - my longest rods are 11.5 ft and my serious carp/catfish rods are glass Abu's of 9 ft. Serious being when I expect fish over 25-30 lbs and when the area is full of stumps and other nastys.

For a little additional braid thought - if I am fishing in weed I really love the fact that the braid will deal with it better than any mono. Why my PowerPro cuts weed much better than mono and doesn't seem to cut fish - I haven't a clue.

BTW - you can mail order PowerPro in 500yd spools from Cabelas for $40 which should work out to around 40 by the time you pay duty, VAT, etc. If you are really serious about the stuff, you can get 1500 yd spools for around $125 but not from Cabelas. Cost per yd is about the same but less worry about having 30 or 40 yds "left over" after you spool a reel or two.

Newt Vail
 

Ziptrev

05/10/01 - 18/10/02
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The UK supplier of Power Pro Braid is Rob , e-mail
rob@game-online.co.uk
Current prices for 10,20 or 30lb braid are 16.99 125 metres, 29.99 for 250 metres.
Diameters are amazing, 10lb = same dia as 2lb mono
30lb = 8lb mono!
If you contact Rob, please mention me
He will send next day for payment by CC.
Cheers

Trev

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mookie

mookie
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icon_smile_big.gificon_smile_big.gificon_smile_big.gif Hi All well thanks alot to everyone, it seems l have a good topic here...to be perfectly honest most of the replies have put me off using braid for l have a dislike of hurting any fish for whatever reason...when l come to Elvington in July if any of you use braid on the day, l would like to take a look and make my mind up there and then....
Have emailed Fox on the matter of braid so it will be interesting what they say.....not bout hurting fish though...just bout the uses of it...

Many thanks again.....Mook
 

MALC

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Mookie, don't let me put you off useing braid as i said i still use it and it is brilliant for showing up finicky bites and you can feel every movement of the fish as if it were part of you.
I just wont use it for for though.

I think in the early days the damage i witnessed was due to the fish being played wrong and as Newt & Trev has said braid now adays is a lot softer than when i witnessed the damage in it's early days.

Malc
 

mookie

mookie
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quote:Hi Malc no it hasnt put me off justa bit sceptical bout it..cheers....Mook
Mookie, don't let me put you off useing braid as i said i still use it and it is brilliant for showing up finicky bites and you can feel every movement of the fish as if it were part of you.
I just wont use it for for though.

I think in the early days the damage i witnessed was due to the fish being played wrong and as Newt & Trev has said braid now adays is a lot softer than when i witnessed the damage in it's early days.

Malc
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