Bow on Rivers

Northantslad

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With you on the feeder needing to stay where you want it @Zerkalo . I may have it wrong and what do i know, but the old 'cast it out and let it come round' has never made any sense to me whatsoever, in that 'coming round' its spreading bait around in wider line and to a degree all over the place as it arcs and rolls round. Most of the places i fish too, yes it may come to rest, right in a snag if allowed to come round.

Lead different story if snag free, and can be a good way to get a bait into tight downstream spots-rafts, under trees etc.
 

Zerkalo

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Yeah I'm going to have to work on it. That happened to me using a 4oz feeder when the river was up, swung round into a slack, feared I'd spread the bait a bit. Probably should have just cast into the slack rather than let it travel. Lots for me to take in and lots for me to put into practise which is what I enjoy. (y)
 

Northantslad

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Not a fan of slacks mate, just into the faster water/just on the fast side of the crease i find, so up the weight to stay there.
 

Zerkalo

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On the little river I fish, it's a bit of a tight cast as you have trees behind you, but I've perfected the short distance casts needed and can pick out a spot between the snags and under the tree... don't mean to boast but I'm always pleased with the way I fish it. I know the contours of that river very well now. Where I struggle is with anything over a 3oz lead, even with my 1.75lb rod, it's always more of a haphazard lob with those kinds of weights, not a chuck to the other side of the river.
 

dave brittain 1

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Zerkalo what I said is that you should not be getting snapped off under the rod tip after you had stated that you'd lost a PB under the rod tip after being broken on 0.28 dia line.

Regarding the feeder it has to be the right weight for the conditions. Lets say there's a little water in and you need 3 oz to hold mid river. You cast out level with where you are fishing, (slightly upstream is better but a little downstream is fine), and you leave the bail arm off until the feeder has hit the bottom and then you pay a little more line out, put the rod in the rest and click the bail arm over and watch the tip as the line starts to tighten. If the feeder bounces, pay another rod length of line out by taking the bail arm off and lifting the rod behind you as if striking to give a rod length of line, click the bail arm over again and follow the line with the tip until the rod is in the rest. If the tip bounces again feed another rod length or two rod lengths.

If the feeder doesn't hold after continually feeding line out, (sometimes you need quite a big bow),, then reel in and add 1/2 oz and repeat, adding lead and paying out line as necessary until the feeder holds.

The size of the bow combined with the weight of lead is what critically balances the feeder so the slightest pull on the hook length will dislodge it thereby setting the hook.

If you are fishing a big bow it can take a good few turns until you feel the fish bouncing on the other end.

The physics of it are that on a river the further you move up in the water column the faster the flow will be. The further you go out into the flow the faster and stronger the flow will be.

If you fish tight and direct there is enormous strain on the line as it is coming up at an angle of 30-45 degrees with only a little line in the lower layers where the flow is much slower. By putting a big bow in the line the majority of the line coming across the main flow is in the bottom layer where the flow is less. If you put a big enough bow in the line, it will be gradually rising to the surface on the inside line where the flow is less which in turn means you need less lead to hold and as a result the set up is much more sensitive.
 

Zerkalo

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I'll try to put it into practise next season on the Severn. Cheers for the in depth response again. :) (y)
 

Northantslad

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Important to feather the cast and dab the spool to straighten out the rig though just as it is about hit the water, particularly with long hooklengths and to stop it landing in a heap and subsequent mess.

Then release the finger and bail arm on for me when it has hit the bottom, if looking to pay out line, then pause at that point (rig hitting bottom) before the bail arm goes over.

I do have to keep remembering though that not everyone fishes the same rivers, in terms of size, environments and also flow. Leave your bail arm off too long on the trent for example and the usual downstream wind and a very keen one usually will have that line off your spool before you can say bow...
 

Zerkalo

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That's about as far as I have gone fishing a bow, basically keeping the bail arm open until the feeder hits the bottom, maybe pulling off a few turns off the spool to give a slight bow, but because I don't really get the same effect as is described by many I can only presume I need to at least try fishing with a big bow by purposefully feeding out a lot more line.
 

Simon R

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Zerkalo

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Have a read of this:


Bob Roberts wrote "The Complete Book of Legering" a number of years ago and he has now reproduced it in his blog - updated with techniques and tackle that have been introduced since he wrote it - there's an entire chapter (Linked above) on 'critical balance' and how to achieve it.

Simon

Cheers. Bit of a long read, will try and plough through it this evening. (y)
 

Barbel seeker

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I do agree with northants lad about the feeder not rolling about the bottom and dispersing the contents all over the river and also on very snaggy and rocky bottoms as can be on the trent it also lessens the possibility of rolling into a snag, I also feather the line and wait for feeder to hit bottom before pulling a bit of line off the spool tightening up the line but I do also like to use enough weight to hold bottom and for the feeder to remain near enough where I place it but knowing it will always go downstream a little with the fall of the feeder , but I will allways avoid spreading my bait all over the river and if the pull being to strong for my tackle will allways fish to its capabilities to achieve this.
 

smiffy

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As a rule you would normally be casting every five minutes at least. If you’re getting bites it can be more often. So,,,I don’t think it matters at all that the contents are dispersed and spread. Probably a benefit as you don’t want the fish in too tight an area. The feeder is going to empty straight away also stopping feed being spread too far.
If it’s snaggy then yes, not so beneficial. If that’s the case then I fish as close as and try to draw the fish away.
Fishing for single or few big fish is a little bit different although I’ll still fish a bow but I’m quite happy to add an extra dead cow or two to keep the feeder still.
 

dave brittain 1

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Not sure where people are getting the impression about a feeder bouncing all over the river. If you do it right and you have enough experience you can select the right weight feeder before you start.

Once you have the method sorted you can evolve it and fish with a bow so that the feeder bounces in a straight line down the peg and rivers like the Trent this can be deadly. If you think about it, its no different to running a float down the peg just different methodology as the bow pulls the feeder to maintain the straight line path.

I'm pretty sure Bob Roberts will have covered this in his book and would be surprised if he hasn't.
 

Zerkalo

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Not sure where people are getting the impression about a feeder bouncing all over the river. If you do it right and you have enough experience you can select the right weight feeder before you start.

Once you have the method sorted you can evolve it and fish with a bow so that the feeder bounces in a straight line down the peg and rivers like the Trent this can be deadly. If you think about it, its no different to running a float down the peg just different methodology as the bow pulls the feeder to maintain the straight line path.

I'm pretty sure Bob Roberts will have covered this in his book and would be surprised if he hasn't.

Seems like it's a balancing act no pun intended. 😁 (y) Thanks for your input again.

I'm lucky in that I have a selection of these to choose from.


They go up to 120g (4oz) and only once have I felt that wasn't enough to hold at all in the swim I was on. I still hooked a few Barbel on that day by fishing the crease. But maybe with a bow as suggested it would hold. Martin Bowler describes it well here.

 

dave brittain 1

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If you go to a good tackle shop you can get Kamasan Black Caps up to 50g. There are dedicated dead cows designed to fit them up to 4oz giving a total weight of 6oz. Nisa and Guru also do a good range of heavy feeders, however for maggot feeder the Kamasans are the ones to go for
 

Zerkalo

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Yeah I buy Black Cap feeders almost in bulk quantities for the smaller river I fish. Will have to look at dead cows for if I fish the Severn and 50g is not enough on the day. (y)
 

dave brittain 1

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Zerkalo the Black Caps are probably the most common feeders used on the Trent, Wye and Severn accounting for some very big weights of chub and barbel, including plenty of double figure barbel. You can see by the 2nd picture of the 3 feeders, these have taken a fair bit of abuse and have caught a lot of fish.

20210123_194233.jpg 20210123_194206.jpg
 

Zerkalo

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Nice one @dave brittain 1. Those look like some hefty dead cows on them too. :love:

The way I have approached the Severn so far has been quite basic, a 'time bomb' method of groundbait and 4mm pellets as feed, and although it has worked for me I plan to try a Black Cap approach next season. (y)
 
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