BNP ???

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Newt

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Mods - feel free to lock this or delete it altogether if things get at all out of hand.

I'm becoming more and more aware of the size of the UK's immigrant issue and the depth of feeling on the topic. And the (well founded?) idea that none of the present mainstream political parties is doing right by the existing population.

The only things I read about the BNP are from the media and I have even less trust in their (media) comments than those from the average pol. But even sifting thru that, it becomes obvious that the mainline parties had better pay attention to the views expressed by so many folks voting BNP recently.

But is the BNP simply a racist, neo-nazi group that will take the UK in directions it really doesn't want to go or are they an idea whose time has come? I've read the stuff comparing them to Hitler's doings years ago but haven't seen any sign of a single, nutsoid, charasmatic leader so the situation certainly isn't parallel. However, many of the same economic and political issues do exist now in the UK so the climate may support the rise of folks with 'instant solutions' to serious problems.

Hopefully this hot potato can be aired and discussed without the thread going bad. MD will represent a good cross-section of the population although somewhat skewed toward the upper end since all are literate and have computer access. And if the discussion stays reasonable, maybe sending a copy of the thread to your MP might not be a bad idea.

Newt Vail
 

Dave

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Hi Newt,

The BNP or British National Party is a politically based party but with mixed motives in my opinion.
They stemmed from the now mainly obscure National Front who were complete facists. The portrait that the BNP like to paint is that they are the party for the people of the UK and will put their country and countryfolk first and foremost.

They have within their ranks a very well educated 'tier' who can and often do put into words what several are thinking, they can also work with peoples fears - generally their policies can sound just but on the other hand there are the extreme views that still exists.

The majority of the party are or have been criminlised at one point or another for their previous extreme beliefs; they also attract the yob/racist element who link onto them in some vain belief based on neo-facism boarding on and some into, beliefs that Hitler was right and he was the persecuted one.
It is this element that discredits anything that the BNP policies may stand for. (or not?)

But that said, a proportion of UK residents are looking for a way out of this apparent decline, they have no faith in any of the main parties and are looking for an escape from what seems to be the ever increasing decline of this once Great Britain. Along comes the BNP, offering the outstretched hand that they are looking for and so the vote goes.

I truly believe that the majority of UK nationals, and in that I include everyone, does not want to see the BNP in any seat but they do seems to be saying what many are thinking...

As Trogg has said in a previous post, please feel free to add to this and other topics of a similar ilk, BUT DO NOT post anything that is racist and if in doubt don't

Cheers,

Dave
 
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AlanP

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quote:Originally posted by Newt



But is the BNP simply a racist, neo-nazi group that will take the UK in directions it really doesn't want to go or are they an idea whose time has come? I've read the stuff comparing them to Hitler's doings years ago but haven't seen any sign of a single, nutsoid, charasmatic leader so the situation certainly isn't parallel.


In a word YES, although they don't have the "charismatic leader" as you rightly point out.

Their views are extremely right-wing and racist. The support they do get is very patchy across the country as a whole and is usually concentrated in the cities.

Compared to the rest of Europe far-right parties are not well supported in the UK, maybe because of the perceived links with Nazi philosophies and all that means. The fact that we have a "First Past The Post" electoral system, as you do in the US, also works against them as it does against other minority parties. In mainland Europe where the Proportional Representation electoral system is more popular they tend to do better at the polls.

As to the idea that their "time has come", I sincerely hope not as that would signify the start of a bleak period for this country in my opinion. The mainstream parties are not perfect but what political parties or philosophies are?

The idea that "everything would be wonderful if only all the Asians/Coloureds/Arabs etc." were sent back where they came from is, in my opinion, laughable. At the moment there is a problem with the number of immigrants that are coming into the UK, often from poorer parts of the world, and a vast number are "economic migrants" rather than "political refugees" I'm sure. BUT - Is this necessarily a bad thing? Economic migrancy has been one of the mainstays of growth in the US, the UK and the many other places throughout the world for centuries - the Irish who went to America, the British who went to Autralia and New Zealand are obvious examples.

A country and it's people evolve and adapt as events and time goes by. The ideas and influences that immigrants of all kind have had on the UK over the centuries have produced what we now think of as British, but this concept will continue to evolve as we go forward into the 21st Century. The UK in 20/30/40 years time will not be the same as it is today, we will have been influenced by the rest of the world and the immigrants who come here (and their descendants).


I doubt if this point-of-wiew will be in the majority in this discussion, but that's one of the great things about a country like this - you do get debate and a mix of opinions. If the BNP, or similar, were to ever gain power I doubt if that luxury would be available to us.



AlanP
 

BlythMags

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It has to be said that the BNP tends to hold council seats in those areas most blighted by crime and maybe the locals blame the influx of ethnic groups for the lower standard of living experienced in these areas - it certainly seemed to be the case in Oldham a year or so ago where Asian youths terrorised white locals of all ages and sex. The resultant riots bourne out of frustration and anger, perhaps?

Whether the bulk of the crime and deprivation in these areas is entirely justified, I can't comment being as I live in Northumberland which has generally avoided the large numbers of immigrants (illegal or otherwise) seen in the south east and north west.

What I can say is that in areas such as Oldham, Halifax and Burnley the general public have lost all faith in the main political parties and, therefore, have resorted to drastic measures in order to seek a solution to falling house prices, increased levels of crime, etc

Do I have sympathy with the BNP - no, but unless the Government get a grip on the issue of 'illegal immigrants / asylum seekers and cease this obsessive attitude of political correctness where the majority of English people have to suffer for the minority, then my attitudes will change.

Take my employer, the Inland Revenue, for example:

We always take the lead when it comes to politcal 'hot potatoes'. The latest being a campaign of diversity where we're are bombarded with information on Hindu or Moslem festivals - why? I don't give toss about another religions values or traditions, yet I'm subjected to presentations on the festival of Ramadam - I have no interest in this, in the same way that Moslems aren't interested in my traditions......drinking heavily and watching football (only kidding!).

But seriously - this 'culture' of Political Correctness has gone to far and tends to geared towards us valuing other cultures, but not the other way around.

One thing I have to say - what really annoys me is when the opposition councilors / politicians (the recent ase being Burnley) come out in sheer condemnation of any BNP member who gains a seat.

After all, I thought this country was built on democracy - the basic right of freedom of speech and expression. In the case of Burnley, the people chose to elect a BNP member to the council - that was there right.

The question is - when will the next 'Oldham' take place. I wouldn't have thought we've seen the last 'race war' in this country, would you?

Thanks for listening - hope I haven't offended anyone. As I say I'm not racist, altough I am nationalistic. I'm proud to be English, and it's acheivements whatever colour it's citizens are.

Here's one for you - when was the last time you saw an advert for the English Tourist Board' on TV? We see adverts for the tourists board of Wales, Scotland, Ireland, USA, India, Egypt and Australia but not for our own country - are we afraid to stand up and be proud to advertise our country.

......and don't get me started on the lack of 'enthuiasm' on the part of the government for celebrating St George's Day!!!!

St George's Day - Let's Have It Off!!
 

Beebs

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quote: a vast number are "economic migrants" rather than "political refugees" I'm sure. BUT - Is this necessarily a bad thing? Economic migrancy has been one of the mainstays of growth in the US, the UK and the many other places throughout the world for centuries - the Irish who went to America, the British who went to Autralia and New Zealand are obvious examples.

I think it is a bad thing when they are not coming here to find work, but to simply shirk off the state that WE have payed for. If they are genuinely coming here to work, then there is no problem, they'll pay tax and NI like the rest of us and pay their dues to the state. That was never the argument in the first place. People don't mind folk who do a fair day's work for a fair day's wage, but when they come here, they've already travelled through many other safe countries from where they've come from, so why is that? It certainly isn't for the weather!! They know Britain is a soft touch for asylum seekers. Housed immediately and given a weekly allowance. Why else would a truckful of Chinese immigrants risk death in the back of a lorry? China is a helluva long way from Britain. If they are caught entering the country illegally, one word - 'Asylum' is all they know and all they need to know. Bring on the house, the cash and the free health care.

The difference between UK & the US or Australia is the vast amount of area and natural resources that the latter have in relation to the UK. Australia's foundations was built by slave labour as was America, both to the detriment of the indiginous people. Both are relativley new cultures, so it is inevitable that people want a taste of the 'Brave New world'.

The point that seems to stick a bit was mentioned on the previous thread, that many of our own citizens are being forced to play second fiddle to asylum seekers when they have contributed all their lives to a state that now appears to favour people who have contributed nothing. People turning up for job interviews with no knowledge of the language.

The one thing that really gripes me is that people seem to think that racism is strictly the preserve of whites. When I first moved to England, I lived in a street that was mostly populated by Asians and the racism we got for being WHITE was phenominal. I told one Indian girl where I lived and even she said "There's too many Asians down there!" One black guy in work was quite possibly one of the most biggoted, outspoken, offensive racists that it has ever been my displeasure to meet. Born and raised in the Home Counties, but putting on the jive, Yardie talk in front of his mates "Dis ting, Dat ting" oh please. When the management had finally had enough of his constant, daily outbursts, he was suspended with full pay, with the view to firing him. He went into his hearing and waved the racist 'Get out of jail free' card and was back in work within a week. The rubbish I got for being Welsh was constant and every day, but of course you can't be racist to a white man.

Don't get me wrong, it's only a few rotten apples, but when you meet enough of them it does start to cloud your judgement. I was unlucky in living in a particular town that seems to have an 'attitude'. Many people I have met since that have moved to that particular town from bigger cities have all said the same about the place. Since leaving there I have met and worked with other Asians and coloureds and have had no problem with them, so I have satisfied myself that I am not racist. Take people for what they are.

As regards the BNP. I think it is a statement of the nation we live in today that they are becoming a bigger party with more voters. However I think this is more to do with the fact that they are openly saying that they will actively act on immigration and asylum seekers in a time when the majority of British people think it has got completely out of hand and feel that none of the other parties are prepared to act at all, but resettling people who have been born and raised here smells of ethnic cleansing.

I hope that the government wake up and realise that they have a crisis on their hands, because as we have seen from the last thread, people have had enough, and desperate people do desperate things. Like voting for the BNP. I think that unless something is done about the asylum issue, more and more constituencies will fall to right wing parties like the BNP, not because they necessarily agree with all their policies, but because they feel that their government has let them down and there is no credible alternative as a voice for them.

I won't be voting BNP and never will (I hope) as I trust that the voice of the British people will be loud enough to make the people we voted into power realise just who gives them that power.

WHOOAAAH, heavy topic for a Monday!!!!!!

 
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scoobs11

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i am not desperate but would happily vote bnp

in fact i would happily stand for the bnp if i thought there was a chance of election and making a difference.

sadly i fear that the labour and conservative stranglehold on politics in this country are such that any other party is just a waste of time

i'll have a fiver on the brown one
 

mike s

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The BNP are a bunch of thugs & scumbags.
THEY ARE NAZI'S

Cumbria Angling Centre
 

martin.

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the BNP may not be completly correct in everything they or some of there members do.
BUT i aggree with quite a lot of there ideas.
I am english & i want to be able to go anywhere in our country to any shop or get into any taxi,bus ect & give my requist in plain english for the person to understand me & for me to understand there answer i am finding this less common. if i wanted to go to another country to live i would be expected to ABIDE by there rules & traditions NOT to change them & would be expected to learn there language.
So why should that not be so here.
i AM ENGLISH & WOULD LIKE TO STAY PROUD OF BEING ENGLISH IN ENGLAND

tight lines.
martin.
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Geoff P

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I will never vote BNP but my flag rules.

Geoff

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chub

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i am a member of the BNP and i support everything that they say BRITAIN is getting overun by immigrants many of witch are terrorists in hiding [:(!] thats a fact so we should start deporting them as soon as we can otherwise they will start bombing us or worse!

i love catching chub
 
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Lid

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If there becomes a chance of the BNP getting into power I'd form my own political party and work as hard as I could to make a difference. At the moment our mainstream parties are utter rubbish. They just don't seem to have a clue. Immigration and asylum policies, are rubbish, the law is not upheld, our money is continually wasted by the bucketful, we are destroying the planet, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

And then there's Europe - we should leave the EU now - we do not benefit in my opinion and it is just a huge drain on the nation's finances. Look what's happened to the fishing industry and farming in this country.

The thing is the people who would actually make the best leaders for the country are not interested in doing so and we have politicians instead.

The trouble with voting for the BNP is most people don't realise what they really stand for. Remember a while back when the Green party got a huge vote in the UK Euro elections. People didn't realise they are mostly a bunch of communists. But it goes without saying a lot of the Green policies are actually extremely important and need addressing now.

Any more advanced observers from another planet would look down at Earth and just laugh at the mess we ae making. If we are still here next Millennium, I wonder if we will have sorted it out by then.

Lid [:)]
 
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Trogg

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Erm the green party were also a bunch of anti's who wanted to ban any fishing within the UK & its terratorial waters along with a lot of other things like farming animals for meat etc.


I agree with the europe thing though, the worse thing this country ever did was allow B'liar & his mates into power & then put them in again!!!

Don't worry though we'll be out of europe soon cos B'liar & his mates will be signing the paper work to make us another of the United States (No 51 i think??)


Alan

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Lid

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Agree, the Green party are not for us, but we still need to address the core Green issues though, before it's too late to save the planet.

Lid [:)]
 

BlythMags

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I work for the Inland Revenue - has anyone tried to ring local DSS / Benefit Agency offices in London?

Very few employees seem to speak English. How do these people manage to obtain employment - by playing the racism card, I reckon?

I once saw a TV programme where a number of Bangladeshi women were on strike because they were fired from jobs in a Birmingham factory and they were protesting against unfair dismissal. The local reporter went to interview the women to enquire as to why they were protesting - none of the four women could speak a word of English!!

Now, ha'way - what's that all about??

If I ever decided to live and work abroad, I'd make the effort to integrate into the local community's way of life and learn to speak the language - these lot couldn't even be bothered to do that, and they have the cheek to feel they've earned the right to vent their frustrations by going on strike, not to mention their right to claim any benefits that they can get their hands on!

If I tried that in Bangladesh, I'd be locked up and the key thrown away. I wouldn't expect much intervention by our Foreign office either, who seem almost afraid to get involved in such issues.

It's enough to drive a man to despair.
 

BlythMags

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Oops, I do apologise to our southern friends.

I should have said 'Now, come on - what's that all about'??

[:)]
 

Lid

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I reckon the ability to speak and understand English is a necessary skill for many jobs, from both from a safety aspect and just plain efficiency of working. It cannot be discrimination to exclude applicants who do not have a sufficient grasp of our language. In fact for lots of jobs, e.g working in shops, it must already be the case that the ability to communicate effectively in english is essential.

What about other cultural or religious practices? A strict Jew cannot work from sunset on Friday night to sunset on Saturday night. Is it discrimination to say that person cannot have job that requires working on Saturday if they say they can't?

Lid [:)]
 

bat

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I belive the govt will be suprised by the way theis country is turning against immigrants, i for one hold nothing against anyone who would come into OUR country and WORK and FIGHT for its freedom.
Ask half of the iraq's if they would go back with a gun in there hand and fight for iraq!! against saddam , if they would let them go if they come back alive let them stay AND GO to WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!
To many young ENGLISH lads will lose ther lives trying to defend THE USA and for what the price of our petrol !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If they callded me up i would rather go to jail than fight for this once proud nation of ours!!!
 

Lid

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In the the mid eighties I lived in a street in Oxford where many houses were rented to Iraqi and other 'visitors' who were doing there initial pilot training at Kidlington Flying school before returning to their native own armed forces. I also remember years ago going for a medical at RAF Biggin Hill and being mixed up with a group of foreign pilots whose country was presumably paying to use our superior facilities.

I doubt whether there will be much of a problem with air defence from Iraq, but the point I'm trying to make is that when money is involved we are quite happy to arm and train our future enemies even when we know they are dubious. On Question Time last night some-one likened it to drug dealers and drug users, i.e we, the suppliers, are the dealers and Iraq is a user.

Bit late now though innit!.

Lid [:)]
 

haydn.borthwick

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The Iraqi pilots have had their training cut by a half by Sadam. He recons they only need to know how to take off....LOL..Haydn



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