Angling Trust - Update for Anglers, Clubs & Fisheries

Neil ofthe nene

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so how long till we get a post from someone saying that they can fish a match as they are ensuring they are meeting the social distancing guidelines??? and the AT rules are not law!!!!

surprised they havnt posted yet! its clear as day but idiots will be idiots!

Yesterday on the other thread I reported a conversation I had with an inspector and a sergeant from Thames Valley Police who, independently, told me that in their opinion matches could be held as long as they could be organised in such a way as to observe social distancing.

The very point both officers made was that the AT guidelines are not law and thus have no legal bearing. Thus only when social distancing was not observed could or would they take action starting with advice and encouragement through to fines and eventually arrest if necessary.

Unfortunately the AT and police are interpreting the law differently, so not "clear as day".

I have emailed the AT regarding my conversation with the police (named the officers) and asked AT to clarify the situation with them.

P.S. Don't shoot the messenger :)
 

gingert76

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it is clear as day, the guidance is perfectly clear from a Angling organisation, i know exactly what you mean but if its not a enforceable law then people should be following the guidance from a specialist organisation that understands all forms of angling so that is the AT

its the same as learning to drive, if you use a trained driving instructor you know you are learning 100% the correct way with their knowledge of all the rules and no bad habits. If you learn from a family member then they may either not have the latest and correct information, they are basing their decisions from when they learned and you can easily pick up bad habits from them as they are used to driving their way.

so you can pick either but the most logical decision is clear as day, if you want to learn correctly then you used a trained professional, makes sense to me anyway
 

gingert76

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same as owning a Ferrari and needing a service for instance, you can either take it to the dealership who specialise in that car and have the correct Ferrari approved parts or you can choose a standard garage who do not have the specific skills or branded parts but they say they can do the same job at 25% of the price.

so you can use either but if you want to be 100% sure and happy then you go to the Ferrari dealer but you could use either option depending on the risk you want to take
 

alanmac

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Well presented, I was a lapsed member but have joined again, we certainly need the A.T. for sure, good to get a reminder why we do.
 

Dave

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Yesterday on the other thread I reported a conversation I had with an inspector and a sergeant from Thames Valley Police who, independently, told me that in their opinion matches could be held as long as they could be organised in such a way as to observe social distancing.

The very point both officers made was that the AT guidelines are not law and thus have no legal bearing. Thus only when social distancing was not observed could or would they take action starting with advice and encouragement through to fines and eventually arrest if necessary.

Unfortunately the AT and police are interpreting the law differently, so not "clear as day".

I have emailed the AT regarding my conversation with the police (named the officers) and asked AT to clarify the situation with them.

P.S. Don't shoot the messenger :)


I'd already forwarded your comments to the AT Neil

You may want to have a look at his comment made and pass it on for a statement to clarify the issue:

Match Fishing - Forget it !

Quote: “Just off the phone to Thames Valley police. The bottom line is that the AT guidelines regarding matches are just that and no more. There is no legal basis for matches not to take place and thus the police cannot prevent them.

But Social Distancing rules must be observed. Thus if a match can be organised while respecting Social Distancing that is legal.

Sensibly organised matches can therefore go ahead with no fear of fines or other action by police.”




Regards,



Dave Webster

www.maggotdrowning.com


I think it may have prompted the video statement from Jamie Cook to clarify the issue :)
 

Nobby_nobbs

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It must be a nightmare for the police at the moment trying to keep up with this. I think Jamie Cook said one government department had put out 4 statements in one day.
It all takes time to filter down the chain of command, and by the time it gets to the man on the ground it has changed again.
They will have the basics but to know what applies to what permitted sport must be doing their heads in
 

snipersid

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The police also have more important things to do than drive in the middle of the country and ask people to move on. Let’s hope its a safe weekend for all.
 

Dave

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To be honest more police forces are seeing a drop in 'trade' at the moment due to the restrictions and more people staying at home
 

snipersid

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Which shows how people do listen and do take notice regardless of what forums and the papers say. Journalists and forum posters often have motives some of which are unfair and very few positive. The stats are better each day with this virus we should look forward to each day
 

mike fox

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Yesterday on the other thread I reported a conversation I had with an inspector and a sergeant from Thames Valley Police who, independently, told me that in their opinion matches could be held as long as they could be organised in such a way as to observe social distancing.

The very point both officers made was that the AT guidelines are not law and thus have no legal bearing. Thus only when social distancing was not observed could or would they take action starting with advice and encouragement through to fines and eventually arrest if necessary.

Unfortunately the AT and police are interpreting the law differently, so not "clear as day".

I have emailed the AT regarding my conversation with the police (named the officers) and asked AT to clarify the situation with them.

P.S. Don't shoot the messenger :)
Maybe you should have reminded the TVP of the true definition of "public gatherings/events". The Law is made up from definitions. It is clear that angling matches are illegal. The government choose their words carefully but unfortunately not everyone understands them. This is why I believe the AT should have made their statement much clearer so EVERYONE could understand and not so ambiguous. Not EVERYONE are of the same intellect (present company excepted of course). :) It is so easy for a group of "experts" to sit around a table/computer screens and put together a series of guidelines that THEY understand to be clear but are not as clear to many others as our Boris discovered after his televised statement last Sunday evening.
 

ukzero1

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Had to chuck one person off the club lakes this morning. Despite notices etc. about roped off pegs and the reason, this one removed the ropes and tore off the notice taped to the platform. His book has been revoked and now faces the committee, which may lead to him losing his membership. His reason? "It's a good peg this, it shouldn't be shut off."
 

mike fox

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Soon after the fishery I created opened a few years ago with 26 equally distanced pegs, I found a Committee member sat inside the inlet channel fishing. He complained when he received a letter from me stating that his position as a committee member could be compromised. You couldn't make it up could you. Utter brainlessness.
 
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HawkerMan

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Last week Angling Cymru issued a statement saying you could drive to go fishing locally. This is now being questioned by the police Police question whether fishing is even exercise amid driving rules confusion as it goes against the Welsh Assembly guidelines which state you can only go fishing if you can walk to the venue. The Angling Cymru website is now in the process of updating their statement.
 

1kingy

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Last week Angling Cymru issued a statement saying you could drive to go fishing locally. This is now being questioned by the police Police question whether fishing is even exercise amid driving rules confusion as it goes against the Welsh Assembly guidelines which state you can only go fishing if you can walk to the venue. The Angling Cymru website is now in the process of updating their statement.
Let me know when they do please mate ?
Confused.com at the moment ?
 

HawkerMan

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Will post their response as soon as it's updated. It will follow the Welsh Assembly guidelines so that means my planned trip for Wednesday is off. It's only 2 mile away but no way could I carry my gear that far. Never mind back to painting the kitchen.
 

Neil ofthe nene

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Maybe you should have reminded the TVP of the true definition of "public gatherings/events". The Law is made up from definitions. It is clear that angling matches are illegal. The government choose their words carefully but unfortunately not everyone understands them. This is why I believe the AT should have made their statement much clearer so EVERYONE could understand and not so ambiguous. Not EVERYONE are of the same intellect (present company excepted of course). :) It is so easy for a group of "experts" to sit around a table/computer screens and put together a series of guidelines that THEY understand to be clear but are not as clear to many others as our Boris discovered after his televised statement last Sunday evening.

How stupid do you think I am?

I had a long discussion with both officers and did raise the issue of gatherings and not meeting with more than one person from outside your own household (Regulation 7 as they told me). Both officers, independently, told me that in their opinion holding fishing matches was NOT, repeat NOT illegal as long as Social Distancing guidelines were adhered to. So it is not at all clear to them that matches ARE illegal.

I don't think it would have helped for me to act as a Barrack Room Lawyer and explained that they, the enforcers of the law, had made an error in their interpretation. I am sure they would be interested to hear you tell them that they are wrong. My conversations were the result of my raising a query that was dealt with under reference URN 206 15/05/2020. I'm sure if you contact TVP and quote that number they will put you in touch with the inspector and sergeant I spoke with. You can then use you legal training to convince them the error of their interpretation and application of the law. My own legal training only extend to courses in contract and banking law passed as part of my professional qualification. Law was not part of my university degree profile.

I'm sure your superior intellect will carry the day and TVP will change their stance due to your expert knowledge.
 

gingert76

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Lets hope he never gets the chance to fish that peg or lake again!


Had to chuck one person off the club lakes this morning. Despite notices etc. about roped off pegs and the reason, this one removed the ropes and tore off the notice taped to the platform. His book has been revoked and now faces the committee, which may lead to him losing his membership. His reason? "It's a good peg this, it shouldn't be shut off."
 
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