Match fishing - drawing the line somewhere?

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OldTaff

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Commercial fisheries will only supply what anglers want and if too many people feel the way the OP feel then I am sure stock levels will change.

However until that happens then if you don’t like those venues don’t go to them.


Karl
 

Silverfisher

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[QUOTE="Dave Spence, post: 2598151, member: 21862"
Please stop encouraging people to try natural venues and rivers. I like the fact that I can always get in, even on a Sunday😃
[/QUOTE]

Haha true every time I’m having a good day down the river and I tell a passing angler that it’s fishing well my grandad always says you’re supposed to tell them it’s rubbish so they don’t nick the good swims!
 

Arry

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The problem I have with fisheries like this is the public perception of angling... to most ofc the public, going fishing is an old duffer on a lake with rod and line.... they can square it with themselves that anglers are doing no one any harm.... but when carp are being caught 3 at a time (yes it happens... seen it at Arrans) and put into nets, it presents a wholly different picture of our.... "sport" if you can call it that.... it is no longer a sport where cunning and guile is used to dupe a fish onto hook... its a test of speed and strength and to me has no right to be called angling... might as well do without a rod and just use a feckin net...
This and a few others are the reason why I packed in match fishing a couple of years back...

I'm happy to be per ieved as the old duffer with rod and line on the side of a lake doing no harm... I think I'd get pretty angry if the match fraternity got angling banned on the basis of their treatment of fish... because to be perfectly honest match lads have a lot to learn and improve on, in the treatment of fish.... sorry if thatcgoes against your ethos but you know its the truth... you gotta clean up your act
 

nejohn

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My personal view is I am not a massive fan of commercials but I will fish them from time to time, and when I do I tend to choose the venue carefully, there are a few nearby that are literally holes in the ground with fish in, these places hold no appeal to me but I can see why they appeal to some people, you can park behind your peg, there is no bankside vegetation to obstruct your fishing and they have a good head of fish. I don't however have a problem with people fishing these places as long as they are using legal methods, treating the fish and the general environment well and not doing anything to give angling a bad name, once that stops that is when I begin to have a problem and that applies to any water. Each to their own as far as I am concerned as I am sure there will be many on here that see me as being a fool to tramp over a few fields or carry my tackle almost 2 miles from the car on the top of a mountain and know that my chances of blanking are much higher than my chances of catching but I enjoy it so what is wrong with it and I don't do it every time I go fishing as I try to vary my venues. Bottom line is if you don't like a venue then don't go and if you don't like a particular method then don't use it. Personally I don't like self hooking rigs so I don't use them, probably limits my catches but they are just not for me... Not cricket and all that.
 

JayD

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The amount of indignation, and offence taken over a simple question like this, beggars belief! The title of the thread suggests to me that the OP is asking, 'is there a line we should draw in our attempts to catch fish? It seems from most of the replies, the answer is a decisive 'NO, anything goes'. The usual 'they are not all like that', 'we shouldn't talk about it on here', 'it's not overstocking, the fish are well looked after',etc. No one said they were all the same, but some are stocked to ridiculous levels. If we refuse to talk about the subject, then we either agree with it, or feel we have something unpleasant to hide. Overstocking is very much a matter of opinion. My view is if the water can't support the mass of fish in it, without the need to constantly artificially feed them, and aerate the water regularly, then the stock levels are too high. How many of you would stock your garden ponds to similar levels? I've read successful match men on here saying that foul hooking fish is regularly part and parcel of fishing these waters. If that doesn't suggest overcrowding then what does? I've said often enough that I can't bring myself to fish these overstocked 'catching ponds' and can't understand the obsessive need to amass massive weights nearly every time. I have however grown to accept that it's what many anglers want now, and it's my choice to avoid them. The ones that sell the kind of 'catching experience' that the OP describes, are however, on a different level, they can, and I believe will, have an impact on the future of your, and my angling.
In answer to the OPs question, yes I believe we should draw a line on what is, and isn't acceptable in this sport/pastime that we all enjoy.

John.
 

Arry

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Most new anglers haven't been through the rite of passage whereby if you fished club outings on rivers, your first season or 3 was as pools fodder... you learned your craft and was used to the odd blank or two.... usual weights were low and 10lb was a good days fishing... nowadays the hook is the big weights and big payouts on commercials and fish welfare isn't high on your list... I've seen high double figure carp put into nets on the Maver match this comps... fisheries are overstocked holes in the ground to cater for those wanting big weights... to be honest, I'm bloody glad I'm not part of it any more...
 

alsur

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Horses for courses, each to their own I say
I agree to some extent but some of these excessively stocked waters and very large weights give ammunition to antis. I enjoy fishing matches on commercials and let's not forget all commercials are different but I prefer a venues where the winning weights are lower say in the 60 to 100lb range. Most of us want to catch a few fish but it's easy to become complacent and dismiss catches which are in reality good I've done it myself 40lb of small barbel in net and complaining.
 

Silverfisher

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@JayD I agree that the requirement for aeration and artificial feeding is a good measure of overstocking. If the water itself and the biomass of fish in it is well thought out neither should be necessary in all but the most extreme circumstances as they clearly aren’t needed in real nature.
 

Arry

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I hear it a lot more nowadays that some lads would rather have 20lb of Roach they've worked for than 100lb of easy Carp... yes its a trite and hackneyed saying, but its becoming more and more relevant... whether you like it or not Carp have taken over the match world and to be honest thats not a good thing... what happens when they are too big for nets... culled, moved on, eaten??? who knows, or even cares...... I do... time to let the huge 500lb nets of fish go by the by and look at a smaller quarry that doesn't grow too large for the water, levels the playing field and allows the public perception of angling to return to something approaching the norm
 

Silverfisher

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The whole roach net over carp net one is an interesting one, I’d obviously prefer the former but it still needs to feel like an achievement. There’s a Stillwater near me that I’ve fished since day one and tbh if you are a decent angler 60-70 of roach for over 15lb is not far short of a formality through the warmer months almost regardless of the conditions. It’s nice to do for 3 or 4 sessions over the closer season but I’m usually well fed up with it by the 16th as I just feel I’m catching them because anyone worth their salt would as it’s pretty much the same every time. It’s just casting a float into a still, even depthed bit of water with no nuisance fish to worry about so is pretty easy fishing. You’ve got to know what you’re doing but you don’t feel like you are achieving much. By contrast down the Thames one day you might catch 30 odd roach, the next 50 odd then the next 40 odd as it’s much more condition dependant plus you are dealing with running water of different paces in fluctuating depth across the trot so there’s a bit more going on that takes more skill to deal with which does make a good day feel like an achievement.
 

Arry

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What I find annoying (on nearly every water I go to) is you start off feeding for your target fish and then the carp move in... boils my pee so it does
 

Silverfisher

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It’s luckily not too bad for that on the waters I fish. The one in my previous post doesn’t generally see you hook a carp until the afternoon and it’s rare to hook more than one then I found a couple new venues this closed season where I miraculously avoided hooking a single carp across 4 sessions! I know the sort of places you mean though. When I used to fish commercials more regularly than I do now you’d get your 15lb of silvers but have bycatch of anything from 20lb to 50lb of carp or when tenching you’d get like three carp for every tench. They are a right pain then lol
 

Markywhizz

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What I find annoying (on nearly every water I go to) is you start off feeding for your target fish and then the carp move in... boils my pee so it does
Why don’t you fish silver fish only venues if that’s what you want to target. Our local commie has two silvers only lakes and they are great fun in winter. All the local clubs have lakes full of bream, or tench or roach and rudd. Many of the local farm ponds only have silvers in. I am sure there are plenty around. I have to drive for 40 minutes if I want to fish for carp and actually catch a few.

I’m afraid I don’t really go along with the hook a duck idea of commercials. Maybe some are like that but I’ve fished quite a few commercials and never found them that easy. 100lb is a good day for me and that’s only 20 fish when you are fishing carp lakes. I’ve also never fished anywhere where the owners aren’t very particular when it comes to fish welfare. Most places have bait rules, barbless hooks, maximum hook sizes, handling requirements etc. On the other hand many clubs (@ukzero1 excepted) have very few rules. There are probably really bad places out there, and I think 500lb matches are not a step in the right direction, but commercials shouldn’t all be classed as one homogeneous mass because you’ve been to a couple of bad ones. With so many people frequenting so many places there are bound to be bad eggs. There is also a lot of good stuff going on.

All the over sixties among us may reminisce about past days which were much better but our generation will all die off and the sport will die with us if we don’t cater for, and encourage, a range of styles. The modern match scene seems to be thriving and I’d rather see that than our wonderful sport die a death. My favourite club now has 65 members whereas the commercials I go to must have thousands of participants.

As far as the antis go I don’t think they are any worse than they were in the past. They know fek all about angling and aren’t interested in learning so saying a particular branch of the sport is playing into their hands is a bit daft. Angling is a blood sport and it should be banned. The best way to make sure it doesn’t get banned is to have as many people participating as possible. The more rod licenses out there the harder it would be for the government to act against such a large number of people.
 

Arry

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precious few commies that are silver only round here and now I'm paying for two club tickets with over 35 waters... a commie is a needless expense.... when I fished my club matches we asked if they would run a silvers cup or a silvers only match... they agreed and cited that all carp caught counted as a pound no matter the weight, so every one carried on targetting the carp... whats the frigging point....

I'll take my old gear and sit by a pool/river and let the others get on with it... match fishing died when I saw a 1400lb weight come out of Arrans a few years ago... it sickened me
 

Silverfisher

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Silvers only lakes are rare as rocking horse poo but there are a few around that do a have a sensible number of carp where you can fish for silvers fairly undisturbed you just have to find them.

On the 20 plus carp in a day point thats fine if that’s a good day but on places where you can do that almost every time that is overstocked for me. I mean where in nature can you catch that many relatively big fish every time? You can get the odd day when a really good angler can do that with bream or chub then at sea you can do that occasionally with multiple species but certainly but not almost every time like on some commercials.
 

tipitinmick

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100%, agreed.
But don't let them come talking about how they caught this and that - out of pure grit, determination and skill.
When...

View attachment 38769

It's almost like stolen valor.


Lest we forget the real fishermen out on the treacherous river banks, carving out their own swims in torrential weather whilst praying for a bite.
I’d still blank. 😂😂👍
 

Arry

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I fished a club match water a few years back called Armigers on the Billericay club ticket... I had 105 carp in a session from about 2bs to just under 10lb and I felt no pleasure in doing so... I think that was one of the catalysts that started the decline in my interest in match fishing... the water was definitely overstocked and just too easy... I felt like I was just going through the motions....
 

Deejay8

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There is a place for all kinds of venues and all kinds of fishing and I think it's all ok, as long as the fish are looked after. I dont fish being dragged in using excessively heavy tackle, which happens at some venues, just to get the fish in the net quickly, which seems to have happened at that venue. But apart from that, I think it's ok, but not something I would enjoy. If others enjoy that kind of fishing then good luck to them.
 

JayD

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Mark, as I said in my last post, no one has said that all 'commercials' are the same, but the question was asked, 'should we draw a line, as to what is acceptable? The majority of replies seem to to be that 'anything goes', is that what you're saying? We are on a very slippery slope if we think that way, or if we turn a blind eye at the 'bad'uns', and refuse to acknowledge, let alone discuss, their existence. I lay part of the blame on both the EA, and ATr, both of which have condoned and even supported the angling industry which has led to this situation. These waters, ( I hesitate to call some of them fisheries), are businesses, selling a product, a catching experience, albeit an artificial one. Like most businesses, there are responsible ones, and those that will do anything to maximise profit. These are the ones that are the problem, but so long as an angler can fill his multiple keepnets, then it seems to be ok, carry on regardless.

John.
 
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