Back Leads / pinned line

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What do you think? Is it really that important to pin down your line/try and make it as invisible as possible using back leads, putty etc. as people make out? Can a fish tell the difference between a length of line over a skinny stick or some other lake bottom debris? I'm not trying to dodge buying important rig elements but equally, I could spend the country's GDP on bits and pieces, end tackle, gadgets and bo110x for evermore.
 

Dave

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The only times I use a back lead is if fishing in shallow water for Carp or Pike with a couple of rods and there is the risk of getting lines tangled if one has a fish on.
The other time would be if fishing with a lead in the margins in 3ft or so of water, again for Carp with the rods. And that is purely so the line doesn't come down at a steep angle towards the lead which could result in liners

To me the most important part is the hooklength, the last thing you want is it sitting off the bottom between the hook and lead. A bit of putty or small split shot works wonders and keeps it pinned to the bottom without too much resistance.

Try it in a basin of water and you'll see what I mean :)
 

Silver fan 82

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I think with more regards to carp fishing if your line is tight then yeah I think that if a fish feels that then they can spook. Don't forget that fish can approach your bait from any angle, not just straight on as your led to believe from the diagrams in the magazines. From experience I can tell you that using a braid hook link that matches the colour of the Lake bed will definitely improve your catch rate.
Having said all of that I believe that fishing a tight line gives much better bite registration. There are videos on YouTube that illustrate this. I mean you don't fish the method feeder or a tip rod with a slack line?
 

Dave

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Actually, a small amount of slack can work at times as it allows the line reel side of the feeder to droop, unless it's caught by water flow that is.
The droop can give a bit of leeway where liners are concerned as a fish is less likely to spook rubbing up against a slack line than a tight line.
Another advantage is the bites can be more positive as chances are you'll miss the little knocks and tweaks and just see the bite when the fish makes off with the bait.

The disadvantage though is you won't see any drop backs so not suitable if fishing up the island slope
 

Silver fan 82

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Actually, a small amount of slack can work at times as it allows the line reel side of the feeder to droop, unless it's caught by water flow that is.
The droop can give a bit of leeway where liners are concerned as a fish is less likely to spook rubbing up against a slack line than a tight line.
Another advantage is the bites can be more positive as chances are you'll miss the little knocks and tweaks and just see the bite when the fish makes off with the bait.

The disadvantage though is you won't see any drop backs so not suitable if fishing up the island slope
Cheers for that Dave, I've always fished the method with a tight line so you get that slight bend in the tip. I'll try this next time.
 

Simon R

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I don't worry about fish seeing my line or not - they don't know it's line, it's just another foreign object to the fish.
In fact if they can see it they're more likely to try and avoid it - a fish brushing against a line they can't see may just bolt in fright

Unless fishing at very short range line doesn't behave as the illustrations in magazines or books show - ie an arrow straight line from rod tip to lead
It droops under it's own weight so a lot more line is actually on the bottom of the lake than many anglers realise - there's one of those underwater videos somewhere on YouTube that illustrates the point.

Simon
 

squimp

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Interesting subject; what line actually does underwater is still not really understood.

i get the bit about the fish not knowing what line is, indeed Rod Hutchinson (top carp angler) used to use black mainline at one stage so that the fish could see it better And therefore avoid it. He take on it was that line spooked the fish when they bumped into it but couldn’t see it......

carp anglers (some!) go to great lengths to try and hide their line - be it sinking it, Using fluorocarbon mainline, casting at different angles to avoid draping it over weedbeds, Using back Leads at both ends of the line etc etc .

however as has already been pointed out, slack lines and/or back leads can compromise bite indication - which in my opinion can be catastrophic to actually knowing what is going on Out in the swim and therefore actually catching something.

my take on it is to use as tight a line as I can get away with on the basis that that will maximise bite registration. That usually means a semi fixed (or running) lead, some tungsten tubing to sink the line behind the rig, a fluorocarbon mainline (unless I’m fishing at range, which is rare) a small sliding backlead behind the tubing. I then tighten up the mainline very carefully and fish a medium weight bobbin on a short drop. I would describe it as a ‘semi-tight’ line. I almost never use back leads at the rod end of the line. Maybe on a river with big boats on it.....

the above is based on fishIng for big carp on low stock waters. Furthermore my regular fishing partner is also a diver and has made numerous underwater fishing videos. A few pointers from our experiments:

line, even fluorocarbon mainline does not sink like it is ‘supposed‘ to.

slack lInes can compromise bite indication. I wouldn’t recommend them at anything other than short range.

rigs don’t work like you imagine out in the lake. Keep it simple and fish as short hooklinks as possible.

small back leads (bits of putty whatever) close to the rig can help, but think before you use them at the rod end.

FWIW when I feeder fish for bream, tench and roach I fish with Razor tight lines and no back leads.
 

Silver fan 82

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Interesting subject; what line actually does underwater is still not really understood.

i get the bit about the fish not knowing what line is, indeed Rod Hutchinson (top carp angler) used to use black mainline at one stage so that the fish could see it better And therefore avoid it. He take on it was that line spooked the fish when they bumped into it but couldn’t see it......

carp anglers (some!) go to great lengths to try and hide their line - be it sinking it, Using fluorocarbon mainline, casting at different angles to avoid draping it over weedbeds, Using back Leads at both ends of the line etc etc .

however as has already been pointed out, slack lines and/or back leads can compromise bite indication - which in my opinion can be catastrophic to actually knowing what is going on Out in the swim and therefore actually catching something.

my take on it is to use as tight a line as I can get away with on the basis that that will maximise bite registration. That usually means a semi fixed (or running) lead, some tungsten tubing to sink the line behind the rig, a fluorocarbon mainline (unless I’m fishing at range, which is rare) a small sliding backlead behind the tubing. I then tighten up the mainline very carefully and fish a medium weight bobbin on a short drop. I would describe it as a ‘semi-tight’ line. I almost never use back leads at the rod end of the line. Maybe on a river with big boats on it.....

the above is based on fishIng for big carp on low stock waters. Furthermore my regular fishing partner is also a diver and has made numerous underwater fishing videos. A few pointers from our experiments:

line, even fluorocarbon mainline does not sink like it is ‘supposed‘ to.

slack lInes can compromise bite indication. I wouldn’t recommend them at anything other than short range.

rigs don’t work like you imagine out in the lake. Keep it simple and fish as short hooklinks as possible.

small back leads (bits of putty whatever) close to the rig can help, but think before you use them at the rod end.

FWIW when I feeder fish for bream, tench and roach I fish with Razor tight lines and no back leads.
Why do you fish for bream, tench roach with a tight line but sometimes for carp with a semi slack line? Is it purely an indication thing?
 

squimp

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Because I use totally different rigs.

the t/b/r rigs tend to be helicopters and my version works best with a tight line.

the carp rig is usually as previously described and the lead does the hooking job rather than the reel.....
 

Silver fan 82

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Because I use totally different rigs.

the t/b/r rigs tend to be helicopters and my version works best with a tight line.

the carp rig is usually as previously described and the lead does the hooking job rather than the reel.....
OK, makes sense.
 
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