Are commercials killing traditional fishing skills

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kcon123

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You could say there's skill in catching fish from my fish tank at home, doesn't make it angling though
 

fish finder

callum
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there is no skill fishing a commercial you can use any bait at any depth and you will catch. its boring more than anything because you dont need to try.
 

brasem

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Originally posted by fish finder

there is no skill fishing a commercial you can use any bait at any depth and you will catch. its boring more than anything because you dont need to try.
You are the type of person I was talking about earlier, I and thousands of other anglers must have no skill because we fish comercials.

What you don't realise is the majority of anglers who do well on commercial waters have a background on Natural venues, the likes of Alan Scotthorne, John Allerton, Bob Nudd etc. all fished Naturals.

The skills gained on Natural venues (feeding, presentation etc.) allowed these anglers to perform to a very high standard on commercials because they were already a step ahead on these fronts.

Another angler famed for his success on commercials, Adam Richards, went and broke the match record on cod beck with 63lb of chub only a couple of weeks ago.

Just because you catch more fish at commercials doesn't mean there is less skill involved in catching large nets of them, if anything I think it takes more skill in fishing matches on commercials because of the methods involved.
 

thetraveller

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Originally posted by fish finder

there is no skill fishing a commercial you can use any bait at any depth and you will catch. its boring more than anything because you dont need to try.

A bit like feeding a gallon of maggots through a feeder to hook a few chub and barbel on the Severn. Or a few pints of pellets as they do now. I remember fishing rivers and unless you drew on a shoal of resident chub you were knackered. Go back a few years and the purists were complaining about cane being replaced by fibre glass, the swimfeeder not requiring any skill. Those insecure luddites probably couldn't catch in an aquarium with a net.


Most peoople who are any good can transfer their skills. In fact they will probably use the skills learnt fishing rivers to their advantage and then adapt the new new skills when fishing a river. Can't count canals as natural as the luddites will consider them to be long commercial ponds.[:W][:W]
 

fish finder

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You are the type of person I was talking about earlier, I and thousands of other anglers must have no skill because we fish comercials.

What you don't realise is the majority of anglers who do well on commercial waters have a background on Natural venues, the likes of Alan Scotthorne, John Allerton, Bob Nudd etc. all fished Naturals.

The skills gained on Natural venues (feeding, presentation etc.) allowed these anglers to perform to a very high standard on commercials because they were already a step ahead on these fronts.

Another angler famed for his success on commercials, Adam Richards, went and broke the match record on cod beck with 63lb of chub only a couple of weeks ago.

Just because you catch more fish at commercials doesn't mean there is less skill involved in catching large nets of them, if anything I think it takes more skill in fishing matches on commercials because of the methods involved
im not saying you have no skill.im saying that to catch at a comercial no skill is required, ok you will have days when it is tough but 99 out of 100 days they will be crawling up your rod[:T]
on a commercial i fish you dont even need to use bait they will still grab your hook!
 

fish finder

callum
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also as i say if you fished a commercial everytime you go fishing it would be really boring.
 

brasem

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fish finder, you need to get yourself into an open match and see if they are crawling up your rod then.

Thats when the skill of fishing on a commercial comes through.
 

pole addict

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Fish finder,

you can be forgiven for a lot of what you say cos you're a young lad and dont have the life experience of a lot of people on this site, and you and I could never aspire to some of the angling related achievements of some of them.

But...it has to be said that, you do talk out of your backside at times. [V]
 

thetraveller

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Originally posted by fish finder

You are the type of person I was talking about earlier, I and thousands of other anglers must have no skill because we fish comercials.

What you don't realise is the majority of anglers who do well on commercial waters have a background on Natural venues, the likes of Alan Scotthorne, John Allerton, Bob Nudd etc. all fished Naturals.

The skills gained on Natural venues (feeding, presentation etc.) allowed these anglers to perform to a very high standard on commercials because they were already a step ahead on these fronts.

Another angler famed for his success on commercials, Adam Richards, went and broke the match record on cod beck with 63lb of chub only a couple of weeks ago.

Just because you catch more fish at commercials doesn't mean there is less skill involved in catching large nets of them, if anything I think it takes more skill in fishing matches on commercials because of the methods involved
im not saying you have no skill.im saying that to catch at a comercial no skill is required, ok you will have days when it is tough but 99 out of 100 days they will be crawling up your rod[:T]
on a commercial i fish you dont even need to use bait they will still grab your hook!

A bit like bleak taking a bare hook on a river. Fish finder you haven't got a clue what you are on about.


As for being boring?? You can fish lots of commercials that are different and require a different set of skills. The same as you can fish the same stretch of river and catch the same fish. Look at the number of times the same barbel get caught.


Instead of looking at the negatives look at the positives. No dogs, canoes, kids chucking bricks inand your car is within site.
 

fish finder

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brasem, i have to admit i have only experienced 1 commercial and had over 100 fish including 87 carp from around 11-00am to 5-00 pm. maybe it is different on other waters [well obviously it is!] and during a match.i am only saying what it is like on this commercial but i have heard things like this on other commercials.
and yes you do need skill when fishing a match at a commercial.
 

brasem

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No it isn't different on other commercials, pleasure fishing is a different entity to match fishing.
 

fish finder

callum
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i do do match fishing but i have never match fished a commercial. i thought it would be different on other waters with different amounts of fish.
 

thetraveller

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Originally posted by brasem

No it isn't different on other commercials, pleasure fishing is a different entity to match fishing.

Not really Tony. Some of us match fish for pleasure and the craic.[:D][:D][:p]
 

MOGZ

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Oh dear, didnt expect to cause up this mutch of a fuss but it seems as though a few people wanted it out their.

Personally their is nothing wrong with commercials, it has helped our sport no end in attracting newcomers. I do love the more traditional approach of fishing but it is not without its pains i.e. alcoholics down the canal, joggers.
 

clfletch

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It's fair to say that commercials have had a massive impact on sport, but considering that they represent probably less than half a percent of the fishable water in this country, I think that to fish them exclusively is quite blinkered. There are literally thousands of miles of canal and river in this country not to mention the natural lakes, but if you stuck all the commercials end to end I doubt they would stretch even 20 miles!
 

Wend

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Hmm a very imotive subject.
I would love to have a go at fishing the canals and more rivers but my priority, because I either fish on my own or with my 11 year old son is safety and because I dont want to spend the day with the local chavs and pit bulls on our local stretches of canals and rivers I tend to fish comercials where at least I stand a chance that someone might notice and come to the rescue if any of the morons decide to have a go at me and beleive me they do especially if Im catching and theyre not and they think that no one is about.Dont get me wrong Im not a complete wuss but it's not nice when your outnumbered 4 to 1. Im not out to catch the biggest carp in the lake, I want a nice quiet day and to catch a couple of fish. This usually leaves me fishing comercials. Its a sad world when your not sure if your going to get back home in one piece when you just want to catch a couple of fish.
 

daniel121

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Originally posted by thetraveller

Originally posted by fish finder

You are the type of person I was talking about earlier, I and thousands of other anglers must have no skill because we fish comercials.

What you don't realise is the majority of anglers who do well on commercial waters have a background on Natural venues, the likes of Alan Scotthorne, John Allerton, Bob Nudd etc. all fished Naturals.

The skills gained on Natural venues (feeding, presentation etc.) allowed these anglers to perform to a very high standard on commercials because they were already a step ahead on these fronts.

Another angler famed for his success on commercials, Adam Richards, went and broke the match record on cod beck with 63lb of chub only a couple of weeks ago.

Just because you catch more fish at commercials doesn't mean there is less skill involved in catching large nets of them, if anything I think it takes more skill in fishing matches on commercials because of the methods involved
im not saying you have no skill.im saying that to catch at a comercial no skill is required, ok you will have days when it is tough but 99 out of 100 days they will be crawling up your rod[:T]
on a commercial i fish you dont even need to use bait they will still grab your hook!

A bit like bleak taking a bare hook on a river. Fish finder you haven't got a clue what you are on about.


As for being boring?? You can fish lots of commercials that are different and require a different set of skills. The same as you can fish the same stretch of river and catch the same fish. Look at the number of times the same barbel get caught.


Instead of looking at the negatives look at the positives. No dogs, canoes, kids chucking bricks inand your car is within site.
yeah look ok fish finders talking rubbish, but just give him a break a bit because he IS right with tiny bit of what he's said the rest is hog wash but he's only young. the one comment i mean is

"if you fished a commercial everytime you go fishing it would be really boring."

id change that to it "could get really boring in the end?" which might be what he meant i think? i think he's right i mean look at the lack of young people in the sport now days they fish get hooked for a year or 5 then get board go and experience beer and women then never return, why? i think is because these fishies kill the soul of fishing like i surgested in my post yesterday.

As for thetraveller comment i find it relly interesting when he said look at the poistives "no kids chucking bricks inand your car is within site." woluld they of took off so much if our socity had not gone down the pan.

last of all to anybody who ever they are saying is is harder techniuque wish to fish commersahlls than natuals is bloody stupid, its laughable whn i read there are over hanging tree swims, deep swims, shallow swims for the love of the lord. for ever "swim" there is on a man made puddle there are 3 if not 4 different situations on natual venues including the over hanging tree swims, deep swims, shallow swims!

However That does mot make it unskillfull to fish man made waters at all so lets stop chcuking stones at eachg other saying "mines best"
 

dave brittain 1

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This subject always amuses me but if more people took the time to learn, study and master all the methods on each of the respective types of venue they would have a better understanding of what they are talking about and be far more qualified to talk about it.

It takes years to master each method and I put this reply on another forum relating to the learning curve and what it requires:

Simple basics:

One year fishing the waggler on a natural stillwater to understand feeding and presentation.

One year on a natural stillwater fishing the groundbait feeder and straight lead for roach, bream and tench

One year fishing the waggler on a river to understand flow, watercraft, feeding and presentation.

One year fishing the stickfloat, balsa and topper on a river to understand flow, watercraft, feeding and presentation

One year on the straight lead and feeder on a river

Two years doing a refresher course on a variety of venues to remember what you've forgotten in the last five years .

One year fishing the slider on rivers and stillwaters

One year fishing canals

One year fishing drains

We're now at 10 years and you've just to say got to grips with natural venues but don't worry it'll give you a good grounding for commercials

One year paste fishing on commercials

One year fishing the method on commercials

One year fishing the straight lead and groundbait/pellet feeder

One year fishing the pole and pellet in open water

One year fishing the pole and pellet on snakes

One year fishing the pellet waggler

One year fishing the bagging waggler

One year margin fishing

Two years to remember what you've forgot in the last eight years fishing commercials

We're now at 20 yrs and you've served what most good anglers would call a good apprenticeship.


As you'll see by the post 10 years on natural venues, (rivers, canals and stillwaters), is equal to 10 years of fishing commercials and that hasn't included evolving methods such as the pellet cone and teabag.

I've won matches on all of the above venues and although my natural venue skills have given me a firm grounding in the principles of feeding, presentation and watercraft, commercials for me offer just as much as a challenge if not more so than natural venues. The learning cuve on commercials is endless as are the ever evolving methods required to keep up with the rest of the field.

I agree with the post stating that commercials are killing traditional methods such as the stick float, waggler and feeder on running water, however if an angler knows how to feed and present a bait correctly he will adapt to rivers very quickly and easily providing he is proficient in the use of a rod and line, (it's a prerequisite for most commercials now).

Too many people forget that most anglers learned on a still water prior to moving on to rivers, however commercials have moved still water angling to another level compared to when I served my apprenticeship.

Those who know me, know my record on commercials and rivers is unquestionable, however if you asked me what I prefer to do it would be to fish a good river any day of the week.

Why because I enjoy it but that doesn't mean it makes me any better an angler than those who fish commercials.
 
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clfletch

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The idea of a wide ranging "apprenticeship" you have outlined is a salutory reminder of what an all round angler is. I'm finding it difficult though to accept that the skills necessary for margin fishing a commercial are as hard to acquire as fishing the stick float on a river. I'm not decrying margin fishing which is part of a matchman's armory, and the amount of theory in each might (?) take a similar time to acquire, but the physical skills needed for each do not really compare do they?. I think I'm propably being a tad pedantic though. Excellent post.
 
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